I may have missed it but how long before the histopath comes back?
If we didn't have a vet involved and I was just going off reported issues, I would advise (in addition to addressing the KH/water issues above) doing a shotgun treatment for parasites (BSDT and Praziquantel or Fluke-M). My personal experience is that spitting out food and head shaking is indicative of flukes.
Andrea
Koi Health Care Committee Member
I agree, initial problems reported could be birth defects, but later flashing, spitting, etc indicates the stress has allowed parasites to get a hold and in addition to getting the KH and other water parameters strong enough to provide a good healing environment, the treatment with a malachite green/formalin mixture and Fluke M or Prazi, would be a good start in stopping some of the symptoms.
Zone 7 A/B
Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
Richard
The vet told me to do a 50% water change 12 hours after each dose of the antibiotic. I think that is way to much for them. I am using 5 gal. buckets filled at the kitchen sink, then lugging them over to the tank. I empty the same way. I have 4 thermometers - leave 2 in the tank,, different ends, top and bottom, 1 in each bucket. I am doing my best to get an exact temp. I am hoping all these water changes will not crash my cycle.
The vet said not to use baking soda, so I have to find a reliable buffer. I have been researching and found this product. Does anyone have experience with it and does it raise the salt level the same as aquarium salt? I have BB in the fridge, should I put enough of that in for 40gals. to help? These results are from last night.
Salt level last night is at 0.04% KH=2 drops and GH=3 drops. see above about vet and baking soda. Thoughts on this Mineral salt? Name is Azoo koi mineral salt.
Also there are snails in there, am I killing them with this? 2 are getting white on shells.
Does this vet specialize in fish?
Salt can definitely kill the snails.
Andrea
Koi Health Care Committee Member
Yes, salt will decidedly kill snails.
Regarding the salt, why not just use the big bag salt found at Home Depot, Lowes or Ace. They come in 40lb bags and sell for around $5-6. Make sure to get the pure salt, no additives. We go through copious amounts of salt here for the fish. I'm married to a koi dealer.
There is no need to spend loads of money on a specialty salt.
I have no clue why a vet would not think baking soda was an acceptable carbonate source. You can spend loads more on aquarium based products that often are almost entirely the same thing.
The test with a zero nitrate reading is concerning. It's possible to have a zero, most common when a tank/pond is getting established and nitrates are not yet occurring .
Most often it is that the test wasn't performed correctly, shaking the bottles the proper amount of time. Nitrate readings indicate the tank has cycled. It may be that your 50% water changes are keeping it in check but as I said, I took notice of it.
The Histopath came back and didn't find any infectious properties. Findings are differential for Vit. C deficiency. So the vet wants me to add leafy green veggies, spirulina, Vit. C that goes in the water and Malachite Green for the white spots. Something is depleting the vitimins as I have food with them in it. See photo of foods I have in the house and please help with what else to use. Also how do I get vitamin C that goes in the water. He did not provide a source, only human grade or aquarium. Amazon only has 1 from Kent for Marine and it says to have a KH of 8-12. He doesn't want me using Baking Soda because he doesn't want the PH that high. I was looking up Vit. C and found an article saying that Sodium Ascorbate doesn't affect PH as much as Ascorbic Acid, but it didn't provide what source came from what products. Can anyone help with this? What leafy green veggies and will they mold my sponge filters? I could only find one Vitamin close to me for purchase by boyd enterprises. I put those in on Sat. they seemed a little better and perkier, but it says 1 time a week. 40 drops and drops on food once daily.
Also the medicine he sent for me to get, I can't find on Amazon either and was wondering what I could use instead. Photo provided. Or if I can use it with whatever salt is left in there.
Last I found a product by Fritz saying it raises KH without the PH bounce. I just can't seem to find it at the moment to provide a photo, but will do it on my work break. I'm wondering if this would work.
I don't even know if this is the problem, could all these symptoms be from just that? They're still hiding facing the bottom of the tank, laying on their sides and swimming a bit drunk. Trying to eat, but spitting out food.
I would dump your vet in a millisecond. You need to add baking soda and raise your KH to at least 6 drops.
Libralady, you've got underlying water quality issues (very low KH) that simply do not provide a healthy environment for healing.
I do not understand wanting to spend money on packaged products that do the same thing as baking soda to raise the KH.
Your fish and filters need a carbonate source and baking soda is readily available. Any of us that have low KH in our source water have used it for years. I personally have used it for over a decade. Carbonate gets depleted in a tank/pond. If you don't replenish it, it does not just reappear. Some are lucky enough to have a good amount in their source water, others not. That is where baking soda comes in to help. I spent the time to do all the calculations for you if you use baking soda.
If you feel the need to go with a packaged pond/aquarium buffer, go for it but get your KH to 6 drops and maintain it there. It's really that simple.
Regarding vitamin deficiency and white patches, I would imagine fish living in pH crash possible water would exhibit both. Fish will throw slime coat as a protection from water not buffered well. It can give them a hazy appearance. It can even be stringy. Address your water quality then you can start doing treatments.
If the water is not buffered then they probably are not eating well. They haven't been doing well for almost a week. I imagine them not ingesting all that fry/young fish need would affect their vitamin levels.
You showed a MG/F product, again, do not use this with salt. I would not begin any treatments until the water quality was better as water quality can be a killer.
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https://users.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/chemistry.html
To raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), commonly known as baking soda. One teaspoon per 50 Liters raises the KH by about 4 dH. Sodium bicarbonate drives the pH towards an equilibrium value of 8.2.
What should my GH be? As I have not been paying much attention to that.
I am just scared to add something that is going to raise PH to a high amount and then it could lower fairly quickly before I get the KH up to 6 drops. That is the most frustrating thing. I don't know how long it will hold it I raise it beyond the tap source. It's at about 7.4-7.6 since Sat. If I bring that up with baking soda, how fast will it hold before dropping back to where it is?
Your PH should not drop if you keep your KH up. I would not shoot for just 6 drops that is the minimal for your bio to work. I try to keep mine close to 10 drops somewhere between 8 to 12. If it drops to 8 I add more baking soda. And with every water change you can add a little to keep it stable. Baking soda is very cheap and easy to find. If you look at some of the product put out for ponds or aquariums read the label I have seen a few that are basically baking soda in water that you would pay 15 for something to treat 200 gallons when you could do it with a 50 cent box of baking soda five or six times.