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    Thread: longfin/butterfly spawn 2009

    1. #21
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
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      I have many butterfly koi and I have some with scales like yours. Your longfin is a doitsu. They usually have scales down the dorsal line, sometimes also the lateral line or sprinkled in other places like yours. The large scales are called mirror scales. Some koi have these large mirror scales all over.

      My female koi that I spawned this year is probably 4 or 5 years old. This was her first spawn. The males are probably between 5 and 10 years.

      My breeding tank was 700 gallons, I think (1000 at the most).
      I filled it to about 18 inches deep and put in a 30 foot spawning rope and a few filter brushes.

      Don't apologize for asking questions. That is what we are here for.

      I said you should breed her to a wagoi (scaled) butterfly koi, because when I bred doitsu to doitsu, I lost all of the fry. I have read that doitsu x doitsu sometimes results in high fatalities of fry due to genetics.
      Nancy



    2. #22
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
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      I will post pictures in the next few weeks. They are not much to look at for now. Still very small and cannot be identified as butterfly yet, although they do appear a bit more streamlined than some of the fry pictures in other posts.

      They are all light colors. Most appear yellow for now.

      Growth seems to be very slow, except for the ones I did not feed in the plant pond. I had been feeding the others brine shrimp and artemisia powdered food, untill this week. I started them on Blackwater Creeks food. I put it in the blender and ground to fine powder. They look like they are already growing faster on the Blackwater Creek food.

      I did see some of them today trying to bite the tip of the tails off some of the tadpoles.
      Nancy



    3. #23
      Keith N is offline Senior Member
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      Any pics yet? Would love to see some!

    4. #24
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
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      Progress Report:

      In the plant pond, where the fry grew the best. Had the best colors and I could see nice long fins starting to grow, there were at least 6 in there.
      This is the pond that has 2 small water snakes (another thread) that I have not been able to catch. I have only been able to see 2 at a time, so I probably no longer have 6.

      In the first blue tank where the fish spawned, the number has been reduced from thousands to 8. 7 small koi and one big fat toby, that I did not even see the toby untill the last couple of weeks. He is huge in comparison. He got to go live in my quarantine pond today with the big fish. This toby is a yamabuki. Fins at this point do not look long, possibly due to his rapid growth. You can tell by the dorsal and the angle of his pectorals that he has longfin blood, but I do not know if fins will get long.

      This leaves an identical blue tank to the one above. There is one big toby in there also (also a yamabuki) but there are quite a few more smaller ones in there.

      I will get pictures when I drain this tank before cold weather, if I have any left.

      This years spawn has not faired well. I need to learn how to prevent one toby from eating a whole tank of fish. I had spawning grass in one tank and lilys and anacharis in the other to protect the fry from predators. Apparently it just gave the 2 tobys a place to hide until they ate most of their siblings.

      I can see the advantage of mud pond, but it is definitely too much work for me. I can see how the dirty in ground pond filled with anacharis and plants and not cleaned this spring grew much better koi. Apparently the live food was better than what I fed them.

      One sure thing, I am no threat to any of the fish breeders, but I would like to do better next year. Any and all suggestions for increased productiviy next year are welcome.
      Nancy



    5. #25
      jjspond's Avatar
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      Hi Nancy,

      The success to breeding BF is not to want them to breed. 5 years ago I had a fantastic spawn. I put eggs in various containers and shouldn't have bothered, many survived better in the pond.

      What was really surprising was when I went to clean my filter. I must have had 100 1/2" fry in 1/2 a 55 gallon barrel. I put them in a small stock tank. They were SO cute! They would come right up and eat out of my hands. I gave them all away, grew a few and sold cheap. I currently only have 2 adults, my sister has several from that spawn. The absolutely nicest one though... died due to ulcers.

      Haven't had a spawn since.
      ~ jj
      -----------------------------
      See jj's puddles www.jjspond.us




      K.O.I.

    6. #26
      tdmeckle is offline Member
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      Nice Points, It's definitely hard to avoid the toby issue without repeated netting and culling. As for the natural food vs yours, it might not be that the natural food is a better food, just that it is always available and eating smaller amounts more frequently is probably a more productive feeding regime. I look forward to pictures

    7. #27
      EricT is offline Koiphen Kid
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      pictures please

    8. #28
      Rickyt69 is offline Junior Member
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      I'm still waiting for pictures of babies....

    9. #29
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      still no pics?
      Click for Lakeland, Florida Forecast

    10. #30
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
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      It is starting too cool down here, so I will have to drain, catch, and put the few that survived in larger ponds for the winter. I am going to be off some in the next two weeks, so I may get it done then.
      Nancy



    11. #31
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      I wanna see the babies!
      Beat 162 posts in less than 20 minutes and it's yours:
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    12. #32
      Longfin Lover's Avatar
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      Butterfly babies this year?

      Hi Nancy,
      Hope you have more sucess this year.
      Looking forward to lots of little ones and lots of pictures too.

      Longfin Lover

    13. #33
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
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      I plan to play around with a few.

      If all goes well I will post the progress.
      Nancy



    14. #34
      Longfin Lover's Avatar
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      Any sign of last year's baby longfins?

      Any pictures?

    15. #35
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
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      Last years offspring:

      Most disappeared while tiny. Later found 3 tobys that hid and were not seen till most siblings were gone.

      The best and largest that actually looked quite nice, were in my plant pond. I had several small water snakes that I was unable to capture and remove from plant pond and eventually did not see the koi anymore. I have not cleaned out the plant pond this year, so it would be nice if there are some left and hiding out, but I don't have high hopes.

      Just before winter I threw several of the best in my 1,000 gallon pond. It is covered with duckweed and 2 large resident bull frogs live there. Yesterday when I went to feed the fish the bull frogs moved into position. I hoped to get some food, but I think they were waiting for the fish to appear. They may have eaten what was in there.

      I have a couple in the cull tank, that either escaped me when I took better ones out or improved more than I thought. It may be they were just too small and I would have culled at that point. They are very small.

      I did not make any major effort to save last years spawn because they just did not look as well as previous offspring. I am blaming it on the female, since at one of the males had been used before.

      This year I hope to try at the end of the month. I usually try around the full moon and the last full moon here had warm days but nights dipping into the low 40's and possibly even high 30"s so I did not bother to try at those temperatures.

      I plan to use a female that had nice offspring before and use at least two males that I have used before.

      So well see.

      I hope to have some pictures of some of the longfins that have raised here later this summer.
      Nancy



    16. #36
      BaitWrangler is offline Senior Member
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      IOPets, no to be arrogant because I view your location and I realize how deep rooted into Koi your culture is. I much perfer Nancy's longfin for the following reason. As a Carp fisherman, and Carp being the natural Koi... we recognize two different types of Carp builds. One being the "wild Carp". This is a long, stretched out body configuration where essentially everything is proportionate in relation to how the fish grows. Fish that aren't considered "wild Carp" are typically geneticically defunk from living in small bodys of water where their populations have in-bred for so long resulting in such drastic lost of overall body shape. Basically, those fish were bred in pools by monks and townsmen, etc for hundreds of years under controlled circumstacnes... hence the term "wild" for fish that retain their pleasureable, natural characteristics.

      This is in the Carp fishing world though, where usually you judge by weight not appearance! Personally however, I like the "torpedo" effect because it shows a healthy genetic in the fish. However I guess when it comes to asthetics, in the Koi world, looks rein supreme. Sad though seeings I'll bet the origins fine crafting your own fish to achieve superior effects were at first a very passionate art and now-a-days most folks as such simply buy the best blood they can and use that to show off!!!!!!


      GREAT LONGFINS NANCY!!!

      Ed

    17. #37
      koi4u2c is offline Senior Member
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      bump
      Nancy



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