Pattern...Shoulder Stop/Tail Stop

[Jeff R.]

Let's crank up another in our pattern series. What defines a shoulder stop or a tail stop? Are they important to the overall quality of the pattern? Are there fish that lack these that will be GC? What is pleasing visually or not about these items? Who wants to start us off?
EDIT: While we are waiting for our Panel of Judges to return from shows and various engagements, perhaps we can occupy ourselves with a little exercise. So far we have discussed Pattern...Maruten, Head Insertion, Kiwa/Sashi, Body Wrap, Hi on face or fins and we are now moving to Shoulder/Tail Stop. Considering all that we have learned so far concerning Pattern, please review the koi below and indicate which three you feel display the best pattern in order and why. Should be fun. I understand the picture is small, so work with me. It is the best I have for now.

[Cowiche Ponder]

Jeff what did you do to this post? nobody wants to answer..is there some big game on TV? :D

I know only the bits I'm learning here. So here goes.

I like 8 first, balanced color pattern. Not sure about the stray spot to one side if that is good or bad. I put 1 next as I feel the pattern is also balanced front to back The red on it's head goes to the eye, but not past it. Not sure if that is a nono or not
I put 9 3rd, though in actuality it is probably my favorite and if someone could send it to my pond please? The head marking appears to maybe go below the eye, but it doesn't bother me. Balanced steps, 4 step?

Mary

[Bob Winkler]

Well, I came on here all prepared to "wing" it with some of my pictures and you gone and done it for me....thnx Jeff! The Shoulder area and the Odome or "Tail stop" or some of the most important areas of koi for "balance". Balance is one of the main things that can often make the difference between a show winner and second place or lower finish. Very rarely will you see a "competitive" show in which the top finishers do not have balance of pattern.

The odome is the area just before the tail where the colored part of the pattern stops. On a kohaku, if the size of the white area posterior to the red is equal in size to the size of the white on the nose anterior to the red, the koi can be said to be balanced from front to back. Did that hurt as much to read as it did to write?

The shoulder area is important in all koi, but especially as the koi gets larger. Having a good shoulder area with white in it can impart a feeling of "power" relative to a koi that has heavy hi in that area. The eye is naturally drawn to that area and if there is any weakness there, there is often no "quarter" given. It is too easy to "mark down".

Looking at these 12 koi, with an emphasis on shoulder and odome areas (for the purpose of this thread), I like in order, # 3,1,8,6,12,10,2,7,9,4,5,11. The hiban, or small area of hi on # 8 and 1, actually add to the balance of the impression of these koi, so are pluses, not minuses, IMHO. But on # 8, the white area in the shoulder is too much, which is why I placed it behind #1. I liked # 3 the best because the great conformation, or body overcomes the slight imbalance of pattern.....for me. # 3 and maybe #6 would be the koi I would consider to buy at 2 years old. Even with the slight red in the left pec of # 6.

[Koi-san]

Since this is about pattern. I pick:

1st -- No. 12 Good white skin, well balance 3-step, 1st step looks powerful, good Odome, small hi on left pectoral fin, but cute

3nd -- No. 9 Vey unique hi pattern, well balance, good body conformation, nice Odome

2nd -- No. 1 Nice white skin, Maruten not quite center but cute, good Odome, it will be better if a small hi spot on left side near tail is bigger.

[L5Vegan]

My three favorites (in no particular order) picked on overall pleasing pattern.
#10 Needs to be in Stephens pond with the S shaped first step.
#1 I really like the mirror image on the rear of the first step and the leading edge of the second step.
#3 Great overall look. White on nose really sets off the Hi.

All three have nicely balanced patterns and excellent overall impression. Just how they strike my untrained eye.
Dan

[cmndave]

Warn you, folks, I know basic nothing about koi competition/judging. But, for the fun of it ...

It would be easier for me to pick out the ones I don't like first. Here they are:
# 4 is out. Got a odd hump on the shoulder.
# 5 is out. The left side seems not developed as well as right side. The koi needs a pond has a reverse current TPR (what do you know, I just read this today on Clay's pond design threads ....).
#11 is out. Not balanced. Too big of white gap at the shoulder area. (what do you know, I just read Jeff's original post .....).

Now, for the rest of the line-up, here would be my picks:
#3 Looks the best to me.
#10 Looks a bit too chubby, but, looks pretty balanced.
The third place would be for all of the other kois. They are all equally beautiful to me!

Jeff, this is fun!
CM

[Dr J I Phillips]

In sanke, a break of white before the tail is appreciated as it is in Kohaku. The addition of a sumi mark in the white break is appreciated in sanke.

[Ray Jordan]

I have been taught that the best shoulder breaks from the individual overall pattern perspectives are on koi # 1, 4, 7, 9, 10. I would say the best shoulder breaks are 4 & 9. From a tail stop vs overall all pattern I like 1,3,4 7, 9, 10, 12. With best tail stops for their pattern being 1 & 10. As Bob and several others have mentioned the nose stop should balance in size with the tail stop. Additionally each break between steps should balance with the other breaks. This doesn’t mean that all breaks should be equal in size. Rather that they should balance. For example on a three step kohaku the ideal balance is for the nose and tail stop to be similar. Then the breaks between the 1st & 2nd step and the 2nd and third step could be larger or smaller but also should be similar to each other.

For example koi # 1 has a nicely balanced nose and tail stop. However the breaks between the 1st and 2nd step and the break between the 2nd and 3rd step are not balanced. The best example of overall balance between stops and breaks is # 12.

Please remember that it would be very rare in a koi show in the US for koi to be so equal in more important attributes (conformation and color and skin quality) that this type of pattern evaluation would take place to determine the winner.

[Pacificcoastkoi]

Hi,
I don't have a set of kohaku pics,but here is a pic of my 25" female that I love the pattern on and it may be a good example for this post

[RobR]

First off, great shots of kohakus Jeff. All very nice fish but very different.
I like #9 for first place. It likes like a jigsaw puzzle that is about too be assembled. It just stands out too me as what I would like in a kohaku.
For my pics of second thru fourth it would be a toss-up between numbers 3,6, and 12.
I like too see a nice bold hi pattern on the shoulder and all of the above koi fit the bill.
I also like when the hi extends just below the eyes. In my eye that creates the perfect balnce when a clean tail stop is involved.

[robust koi]

I personally perfer #9, #3, and #1.

[pskorf]

hi