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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    Thread: Kanoko?

    1. #21
      Tom C is offline
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      Keo that's Tom Holders koi. I have heard the Kanoko kohaku's are not stable koi. I have heard they don't stay like this for long. Tom's had this koi for a little time now, and I have to say it has not changed at all. I love this koi.

    2. #22
      JPR is offline Inactivated
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      So compare this koi's problem- a strong pattern but thin beni, with the next picture---
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    3. #23
      JPR is offline Inactivated
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      Here's a higher class koi with young beni but obviously much thicker beni color. This is a stable pattern.
      With the other fish, you almost wish its beni would fade completely and leave a very nice tancho! JR
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    4. #24
      BillJ is offline Senior Member
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      Is this also kanoko or does only red count?

      Bill
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    5. #25
      keokoi Guest - Time to Register
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      Quote Originally Posted by BillJ
      Is this also kanoko or does only red count?

      Bill

      Hmm I know this fish. I was in Japan when I saw her from Maruju Tanaka. Yes Kanoko

    6. #26
      JPR is offline Inactivated
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      This is another interesting fish. This is a form of kage. True kage is actually a reticulation of sumi that forms pattern ( like netting) instead of filling in solid like a normal pattern. There are other conditions of kage that look like matsuba and gormo and modern goshiki sumi reticulation. This is of that type- sumi in the scale forming half moon shapes. It will be very interesting to see what happens to this sumi color pattern over time- I hope you buy it!! JR

    7. #27
      JPR is offline Inactivated
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      Morning guys, I just went to check out the price on the tancho showa. Never been to genki website before- some nice fish!

      I found it interesting that right below this ' kanoko showa' is a 'kage showa' of the same age from the same breeder. This really interests me because it shows us that the names we give koi are part:

      1) the genetics of the parents- that is WHAT the fish actually is as variety.
      2) the 'phase' or description of the fish at the moment. This being possibly a transient condition.

      I would wager a pretty good sum that these are spawn siblings.
      The genetic variety is most certainly SHOWA. The sub-variety is most certainly Tancho showa! The 'phase' of the fish are likely unfinished. I don't think anyone will know for another two years. It would really be fun and educational to buy BOTH and see how they develop. Will they be true kage variety fish or are these just different stages of development in two unfinished fish?
      I question the sex on the first fish due to face color, nose shape and body type. Compare those things with the second kage showa which has a nice body and face shape and looks very female. In both cases, it would be wise to try and imagine what these fish will look like after they are in a closed system for two more years.

      Don’t get me wrong, I would gladly own these two fish. But I would buy them for their educational value and not look at them as if I was collecting a Kage showa brace. In that case there would be no disappointment regarding the outcome. Both fish ‘tease’ us with future promises. This is the gamble of koi buying.

      Hey Tom, think you can arrange a ‘two-for’ price for me? LOL JR

    8. #28
      Bill OTMS's Avatar
      Bill OTMS is offline Most Illustrious Koi Dude
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      Blamzzz posted this beautiful Asagi a while back. Is this an example of Kanoko? Always learning, thanks -

      Bill
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    9. #29
      JPR is offline Inactivated
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      So many koi, so many koi outlets -- so little time! LOL

      Thanks Keo, Thanks Tom.

      Bill, you have the right idea- kanoko as a red dappled effect ( like a fawn) of beni. But that is a surface explanation only.

      As I mentioned, kanoko is identified as a third pattern of of a red and white fish complex. The three are kohaku ( solid red pattern), aka muji ( all red fish with white fins) and kanoko ( a gathered pattern of dappling).

      This asagi has a mimmick look of kanoko and maybe can be marketed as kanoko but really isn't the same thing. This is an asagi with a an overlay of red within the blue asagi color. In asagi, the red can often over take the koi's body. When it does, we get a matsuba. If you think about it for a minute, in shusui ( the doitsu version of asagi) we have both hana shusui and hi shusui. In one, the hi markings are on the blue back in a wavy pattern above the lateral line. on the other, red runs up onto the back back rather than being confined to the abdominal area.

      In the case of this pictured asagi, the genetics seems to be a dilute form of red over the blue base ( actually over the entire fish- note, tail, face cheeks etc) making for a VERY unique and beautiful individual. I don't think we should think of this fish as being a kanoko type. But I understand if in describing it, the words 'kanoko-like pattern' are used to describe a very unique asagi development.
      JR

    10. #30
      JPR is offline Inactivated
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      I think the last point regarding showa and kage vs kanoko features is that they are within teh greater conversation regarding color patterns. Here are two showa. One is kanoko and the other is kage- see the difference? JR
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