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    Thread: Does Ozone Lower DOC's?

    1. #1
      Mitch is offline Super Member
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      Does Ozone Lower DOC's?

      Does the use of ozone lower DOC's (disovled organic compunds)?

      Just curious, and trying to learn...

      Thanks,
      Mitch
      My Opinion - Worth What You Paid For It...

    2. #2
      Bill OTMS's Avatar
      Bill OTMS is offline Most Illustrious Koi Dude
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      Yes It Does

      This will be just a tad bit long and I admit up front that none of this is mine. Though this is about ORP, ozone is an 'oxidizer.' The net has it all, if you search:
      So What Exactly Is ORP?
      As we stated earlier, ORP stands for Oxidation-Reduction Potential. In some parts of the world, it is also known as Redox Potential. Sometimes, you'll see the words "oxidation" and "reduction" spelled without the hyphen connecting them. We chose the hyphen because the two chemical reactions are really "joined at the hip" - one cannot occur without the other also occurring.
      When chemists first used the term in the late 18th Century, the word "oxidation" meant, "to combine with oxygen." Back then, it was a pretty radical concept. Until about 200 years ago, folks were really confused about the nature of matter. It took some pretty brave chemists to prove, for example, that fire did not involve the release of some unknown, mysterious substance, but rather occurred when oxygen combined rapidly with the stuff being burned.
      We can see examples of oxidation all the time in our daily lives. They occur at different speeds. When we see a piece of iron rusting, or a slice of apple turning brown, we are looking at examples of relatively slow oxidation. When we look at a fire, we are witnessing an example of rapid oxidation. We now know that oxidation involves an exchange of electrons between two atoms. The atom that loses an electron in the process is said to be "oxidized." The one that gains an electron is said to be "reduced." In picking up that extra electron, it loses the electrical energy that makes it "hungry" for more electrons.
      We also know that matter can be changed, but not destroyed. You can alter its structure, and can increase or decrease the amount of energy it contains - but you can't eliminate the basis building blocks that make things what they are.
      Chemicals like chlorine, bromine, and ozone are all oxidizers. It is their ability to oxidize - to "steal" electrons from other substances - that makes them good water sanitizers, because in altering the chemical makeup of unwanted plants and animals, they kill them. Then they "burn up" the remains, leaving a few harmless chemicals as the by-product.
      Of course, in the process of oxidizing, all of these oxidizers are reduced - so they lose their ability to further oxidize things. They may combine with other substances in the water, or their electrical charge may simply be "used up." To make sure that the chemical process continues to the very end, you must have a high enough concentration of oxidizer in the water to do the whole job.
      But how much is "enough?" That's where the term potential comes into play.
      "Potential" is a word that refers to ability rather than action. We hear it all the time in sports. ("That rookie has a lot of potential - he hasn't done anything yet, but we know that he has the ability to produce.)
      Potential energy is energy that is stored and ready to be put to work. It's not actually working, but we know that the energy is there if and when we need it. Another word for potential might be pressure. Blow up a balloon, and there is air pressure inside. As long as we keep the end tightly closed, the pressure remains as potential energy. Release the end, and the air inside rushes out, changing from potential (possible) energy to kinetic (in motion) energy.
      In electrical terms, potential energy is measured in volts. Actual energy (current flow) is measured in amps. When you put a voltmeter across the leads of a battery, the reading you get is the difference in electrical pressure - the potential - between the two poles. This pressure represents the excess electrons present at one pole of the battery (caused, incidentally, by a chemical reaction within the battery) ready to flow to the opposite pole.
      When we use the term potential in describing ORP, we are actually talking about electrical potential or voltage. We are reading the very tiny voltage generated when a metal is placed in water in the presence of oxidizing and reducing agents. These voltages give us an indication of the ability of the oxidizers in the water to keep it free from contaminants.

      What Does an ORP Meter Tell US?
      Now that you know the basis of how an ORP meter works, let's take a look at how changes in the oxidizer level in the water will effect the measurement.
      For practical purposes, oxidizing agents are the "good guys" in the water sanitation picture, reducing agents are contaminants and therefore are the "bad guys."
      If we had a body of water in which the concentration of oxidizers (or oxidants as chemists are apt to say) exactly equaled the concentration of reducers (reductants), then the amount of potential generated at the measuring electrode would be exactly zero. As you might guess, the water would be in pretty sad shape, because if any additional contaminants were introduced into the water, there would be no oxidizer to handle it.
      As we add oxidizer to the water, it "steals" electrons from the surface of the platinum measuring electrode. To make things a little more confusing, we need to point out that electrons are negatively charged particles. When we remove these negatively charged things from this electrode, the electrode becomes more and more positively charged. As we continue to add oxidizer to the water, the electrode generates a higher and higher positive voltage.

      Hope this helps. Happy reading.

      16*
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    3. #3
      Mitch is offline Super Member
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      Bill O...

      I read your entire post, and appreciate the info. However I still not understand if Ozone removes or reduces DOC's... Can you help me there?

      Mitch
      My Opinion - Worth What You Paid For It...

    4. #4
      Bill OTMS's Avatar
      Bill OTMS is offline Most Illustrious Koi Dude
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      Short answer - Yes
      Truth Is Truth. You Can't Have Opinions About Truth.
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    5. #5
      Bill OTMS's Avatar
      Bill OTMS is offline Most Illustrious Koi Dude
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      There are three 'oxidizers' that ponders use:

      Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2)
      Potassium Permanganate (KMnO4)
      And
      Ozone O3

      These all interact and reduce DOCs.
      Truth Is Truth. You Can't Have Opinions About Truth.
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    6. #6
      jeff is offline Junior Member
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      Ozone

      Hi Bill,
      couple of questions regarding Ozone .
      1, What if anything does the ozone do to the fine particles in the water ? . Are they oxidised and converted into chemical forms ?
      2. If you can smell ozone then are we breathing it and is that in itself a bad thing as i am quite allarmed at the prospect of breathing this stuff .
      I understand the benefits from ozone , and i do not subscribe to the idea that the koi will be living in a sterile environment as correctly set up the ozone can only kill free swimming bacteria and and free swimming parasites . Many millions live attatched to the walls of the pipe work and the pond and these i presume are safe from extermination ?
      I have heard that for those people with a liner pond the stuff is very damaging to the liner and equipment etc . I dont understand this at all, as again if it is set up correctly the ozone should be all gassed off a long time before re entry into the pond .
      If you could throw a little light on these points i would be gratefull.
      I would also like to know why the Japanese who used the stuff years ago took it off their systems for other means ?
      Perhaps it was unreliable , or uneconomic . If you are to believe all the blurp about Ozone then it seems the answer to many of our prayers ?

      Kind regards

      Jeff

    7. #7
      stephen's Avatar
      stephen is online now Koiphen Member
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      Hey Jeff - I can't tell you all the technical stuff about it like JR, Steve, Bill, Roddy and others because I don't know. I have been wanting to talk about my ozone system for some time now but there are only 2 of me and Minime is in school.

      #1 - It's dangerous - I use several ozone monitors with led lights to monitor ppm in air and also with alarm if it surpasses a set point. It went off yesterday in the pump room. Little leak in hose, Monitor room still registered 0. Repaired now. If my reading exceeds .01 in my working area or .04 in my pump room I take concern. Most people can smell levels above .05, Don't quote me on this, but long term exposure above .1 ppm is not a good thing for the lungs. In my case, smoking for 44 years probably aren't doing them any good either. The Nutshell - Dangerous if not monitored properly.

      #2 - It's somewhat expensive to most and so are the monitors.

      With that being said, It works. I used to do Roddy's PP method to clear my water. That method works good, but the ozone is so much better. No purple, no stress to fish, no declor or Hydrogen Peroxide needed. I want to talk a lot more about it but I will later as round 11 is coming up and I watch to watch it live.

      A stupid analogy I suppose but it's like putting just a few grains of pp in your pond every minute, 24/7. No drastic Changes in Orp, just readings in the range you want. It is a slow and steady and maintaining type of water quality. Please understand I am not talking about ammonia, etc here.

      I know it works and could be dangerous if not set up and used properly. I will defer all the how, who, why and when's to the bigger boys.

      I have a fight thread to go to, excuse me and thanks for your great question!!

      K (medium size K)

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