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    Thread: Transcript - Brady Brandwood chat - Dec 05, 2004

    1. #1
      Lynda in Arkansas's Avatar
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      Brady Chat Sunday, December 5th!!!!

      I know, I know - it's been a while since we've had an educational chat! :o Brady is going to lead a chat on December 5th at 8:00 p.m. EST. That's 7:00 p.m. CST, 5:00 p.m. PST.
      Keep an eye on this thread for Brady's pre-chat posts. As always, please do not post in this thread until Brady opens it up for public comment and questions. :D
      Last edited by Lynda in Arkansas; 11-24-2004 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Wrong Date - Beating head on desk now!

    2. #2
      stephen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lynda in Arkansas
      I know, I know - it's been a while since we've had an educational chat! :o Brady is going to lead a chat on December 6th at 8:00 p.m. EST. That's 7:00 p.m. CST, 5:00 p.m. PST.
      Keep an eye on this thread for Brady's pre-chat posts. As always, please do not post in this thread until Brady opens it up for public comment and questions. :D
      Excellent Lynda! Absolutely Fabulous!

      OK! I am Now Challeging Everyone of Us! Beat Lynda 's Acomplishment!

      Another Note! Something I was talking about with Sarge on Da phone with recently -

      Before when we got a new member, if it was Steve C or JpR or someone, everyone would welcome and introduce them! Now Steve C and others are starting the Welcome threads occasionally! Because Someone Special Just Joined !

      Let us Not Poopy Ourselves Here People! We are


    3. #3
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      Brady, looking forward to the discussion this evening

      Looking forward to the talk tonight. Clay

    7. #7
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      Clay, youre missing it...!!!

    8. #8
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      I've been waiting

      where is it if it is not here?

    9. #9
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      Go to the chat room aqt bottom of forum incex!!

    10. #10
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    11. #11
      Clay is offline Senior Member
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      Thanks for the heads up

      Thanks for the pointers guys.

    12. #12
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      Bil's Paste food

      Hi Clay, I don't know if you have been following it, but there have been some threads on food on NI. I have changed the recipe a bit to boost the algal content.

      Thom B posted some excellent stuff about hyopglycaemia in koi from feeding the wrong foods, eg cheerios.

      Gelatin based food mix..
      300g prawn waste/fish/squid (fish, squid etc cooked)
      400cc hot water with 4 x gelatin allowed to cool a bit.
      20 cc oil, 4 vit B tablets, 1 teaspoon vit C powder, 20g dried bugs, etc.
      150g seaweed flour
      60g Refresh clay
      150g wheatgerm.

      What I do now is this. First put the dry gelatin in a mug, and pour the hot (not boiling) water onto it, not the other way round. To speed cool, as soon as it has dissovlved, pour it into a cold mug and fill the hot one with cold water, repeating till cool enough. Then put the wheatgerm and the dried bugs into the blender, blend to a dry powder and put to one side. Measure clay and seaweed and put into the mixing bowl. Line the paste mould with greaseproof paper, and put the cooked fish, prawn waste into the blender, together with the vitamins and the oil. As soon as the gelatin and water has cooled, I tip that into the blender and get it going. The resultant soup is poured into the mixing bowl with the clay and seaweed, and that is mixed in well. Then I add the wheatgerm/bug powder and mix thoruoghly. That is then put in the mould (I use a stainless steel tray, 8" x 9" x 3/4 " deep), I press it flat and smooth it with a knife, then fold the flaps of the greaseproo!
      f paper over, smooth, and put it into the fridge to cool and set. Then I cube it and store it in a plastic bag in the fridge.

      Beware. If you add yeast to this mix it will make it very crumbly, so it will fall apart. Don't add yeast unless you have cooked it and killed it first.

      The oil needs to vary throughout the year in cooler water I only add 10 cc, in warmer 20. That's a variation between 2 & 4%, but remember the fish and prawn waste contains oil too.

      Wheatgerm is 27% protein and 45% carbs. I assume these to be mostly fast carbs.
      Seaweed is 7% protein and 50% carbs. I assume these to be mostly slow carbs.

      Total dry weight of food - clay = 480g

      300g fish gives about 150g dry 'animal' protein + 20g dried bugs = 170g animal protein. = 35%
      Wheatgerm is 27% protein so 150g gives 40g protein
      seaweed is 50% carbs and 7% protein, gives 10.5g protein = 50.5g plant protein. = 10.5%

      Fish to plant protein ratio is 170 : 50 (crudely) ie about 7;2
      Total protein weight is 220g

      dry weight total % protein would be about 45%

      wheatgerm is 45% carbs, > 68g = 14% fast carbs (down from 16.5%)
      seaweed is 50% carbs, > 75g = 15% slow carbs (Up from 9.5%) High seaweed paste has a total of about 30% carbs

      Fibre. Wheatgerm is 16%, > 24g, seaweed is 8% > 12g Total = 36g = 7.5%

      So to compare dry paste % to pellets, paste has

      45% protein, 30% carbs (14% fast), 2 - 4% oil., and 8% fibre.


      herring 75g 35p
      prawn/squid waste 150g 0p
      dried bugs 20g 12p
      Vit C 4g 15p
      Vit B 4 tabs 10p
      oil 20cc 23p
      seaweed 150g 11p
      clay 40g 48p
      Wheatgerm 150g 17p
      Gelatin 2 sachets 30p

      total 202p = 4-20 a kilo. of which 30% is carbs. Nobori/medicarp = 8, of which 50% - 60% is carbs.
      Real cost, (ie minus the carbs) paste = 6-10 N/M = 20
      for the average 60% carb pellet to work out the same, it would need to cost about 2-50 a kilo.

    16. #16
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    17. #17
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      Transcript - Brady Brandwood chat - Dec 05, 2004

      follow the link below and read away!

      Brady chat transcript - December 05, 2004

      or to be printed here is the same version.....

      12/5/04 20:10:13 Brady_Brandwood: What would you all like to talk about?
      Also, how many of you are naked right now? Be honest!
      12/5/04 20:10:14 Koi_Story: *harp* Hi
      12/5/04 20:10:18 Kent_Wallace: Hi everybody :D
      12/5/04 20:10:23 danm: lol
      12/5/04 20:10:26 gray_cat: *meow* Wish I could have made the BBQ
      12/5/04 20:10:26 allen42: ( perk)
      12/5/04 20:10:26 L5Vegan: Fast work on the pics.
      12/5/04 20:10:34 allen42: < plugs in cam
      12/5/04 20:10:34 kntry: Hi Everyone. Nope not nekkid yet!
      12/5/04 20:10:36 allen42: LMAO
      12/5/04 20:10:37 Ruth: Nope to cold!
      12/5/04 20:10:40 ma_barker: Are YOU naked Brady????
      12/5/04 20:10:42 allen42: yet ?
      12/5/04 20:10:44 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 20:10:47 allen42: @ Margie
      12/5/04 20:10:48 luke-gr: No, but I can be..
      12/5/04 20:10:51 ma_barker: :o
      12/5/04 20:10:57 sunshine_kathy: not neked but dirtty for sure from
      outside work!
      12/5/04 20:10:58 allen42: lool
      12/5/04 20:11:06 gray_cat: *evil* Who told you?
      12/5/04 20:11:16 danm: my koi are
      12/5/04 20:11:24 Pacificcoastkoi: I wish
      12/5/04 20:11:24 L5Vegan: Thanks for bringing back the "Arse image"
      12/5/04 20:11:35 sunshine_kathy: *bird* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep*
      12/5/04 20:11:37 kntry: Brady, tell us about Showa and their development
      from say 6" to finished.
      12/5/04 20:11:53 ma_barker: yeah that shouldn't take long...lol
      12/5/04 20:11:59 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 20:12:31 Brady_Brandwood: Sorry, I got booted off for a sec!
      12/5/04 20:12:37 allen42: wb
      12/5/04 20:12:41 Sarge: that was DALE!
      12/5/04 20:12:43 kntry: I didn't do it!
      12/5/04 20:12:49 Pacificcoastkoi: are you still naked?
      12/5/04 20:12:49 ma_barker: that's cuz your nekkid!
      12/5/04 20:12:52 allen42: twas that naked talk that got ya !
      12/5/04 20:12:52 pandora: I knew it!!! LOL
      12/5/04 20:13:09 L5Vegan: Brady, The top right showa. Male? Looks very
      12/5/04 20:13:09 kntry: Kntry
      12/5/04 20:13:12 Brady_Brandwood: I think I missed something good
      12/5/04 20:13:27 kntry: No you didn't miss anything.
      12/5/04 20:13:35 luke-gr: We thought you wanted us naked...???
      12/5/04 20:13:40 Brady_Brandwood: L5, I'll have to pull that pic back up.
      12/5/04 20:13:43 kntry: I'd like to know about color development in
      Showa from small to finished.
      12/5/04 20:13:45 TomO: I'm a newbie. How do you go between this chat and
      12/5/04 20:14:03 luke-gr: TomO, just open the forum in another window...
      12/5/04 20:14:05 allen42: open another window tom
      12/5/04 20:14:10 Sarge: Teach us oh great one!!!
      12/5/04 20:14:14 TomO: thanks
      12/5/04 20:14:27 allen42: bows
      12/5/04 20:14:29 kntry: Yea, how do you open the forum in another window?
      12/5/04 20:14:29 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 20:14:55 danm: open another browser or tab
      12/5/04 20:15:06 allen42: what Danm said
      12/5/04 20:15:22 allen42: from the main page if its still up , just
      click forums
      12/5/04 20:15:26 ma_barker: his name is ****...
      12/5/04 20:15:34 danm: watch it!
      12/5/04 20:15:40 ma_barker:
      12/5/04 20:15:45 allen42: already made that mistake tonight Ma lol
      12/5/04 20:16:03 Brady_Brandwood: Okay, yes, Showa in top right is a
      male - Nisai 18 months - showing MORE finished colors than most there,
      but still immature.
      12/5/04 20:16:09 kntry: The only way I know to open another browse is to
      hold down CTRL and open it. On this forum, it just goes back to the home
      12/5/04 20:16:25 sweetpea: leave the chat window small and then you can
      switch back and forth if the main forum is still up.......lay terms, you
      12/5/04 20:16:39 danm: Ok Brady, when can good skin quality become
      apparent in young koi?
      12/5/04 20:16:42 kntry: When looking at an immature Showa, how do you
      know how much color it will have and where the color will be?
      12/5/04 20:16:43 Brady_Brandwood: Internet explorer lets you open
      another window under "file"
      12/5/04 20:16:44 luke-gr: Just clike on Internet Explorer and start over
      while leaving the chat open...
      12/5/04 20:17:09 luke-gr: Brady, LIB!
      12/5/04 20:17:22 Brady_Brandwood: Dan, good skin is apparent at 45 days
      in the first cull, and should be there at any age.
      12/5/04 20:17:33 allen42: hugg lynn
      12/5/04 20:17:53 Lynn: Hi all, sorry I'm late!
      12/5/04 20:17:59 ma_barker: hi Lynn
      12/5/04 20:18:03 danm: thanks, so ALL yours have 'good' skin?
      12/5/04 20:18:15 Brady_Brandwood: kntry, showas can have a lot of
      surprises - colors lurling under the skin, so it's difficult to predict,
      but the underlying shadow areas will help.
      12/5/04 20:18:45 Pacificcoastkoi: Brady, if a koi at young age doesnt
      have good skin then should we discard it ever improving ?
      12/5/04 20:18:52 Brady_Brandwood: Dan - no, not ALL, but the ones that
      do get saved and are paid more attention.
      12/5/04 20:19:07 danm: gotchya!
      12/5/04 20:19:29 sunshine_kathy: 3rd fish top row of showas, faded
      colors why???
      12/5/04 20:19:29 kntry: So at a young age, you really can't tell if the
      colors will be the deep wet paint colors?
      12/5/04 20:20:02 Brady_Brandwood: Pacific - we keep Koi for so many
      reasons - if your goal and desire is to win at shows and have the BEST -
      then you have to make room for only the very best - because every Koi in
      a pond takes something away from the other Koi.
      12/5/04 20:20:36 TomO: Brady, I purchased a nice showa, one year old, at
      two most of the black faded to gray that can be seen strongly under the
      skin. Will the black ever return?
      12/5/04 20:20:50 sunshine_kathy: what do you mean by that brady???
      12/5/04 20:21:05 kntry: On the second row of Showas, fish 3 & 4 how very
      little sumi and there isn't much under the skin. Will they lose the
      little they have now?
      12/5/04 20:21:51 Brady_Brandwood: sunshine - 3rd from top showa is one
      of my 3 very best of that group.
      12/5/04 20:22:00 allen42: 12/5/04 20:22:05 Brady_Brandwood: I got kicked off again.
      12/5/04 20:22:17 allen42: 'wb
      12/5/04 20:22:27 Brady_Brandwood: how do i read the past sentences?
      12/5/04 20:22:36 luke-gr: scroll bar on right
      12/5/04 20:22:37 danm: scroll up
      12/5/04 20:22:42 kntry: Use the arrow on the blue bar to the right of
      the print
      12/5/04 20:22:44 Canadian_RedNeck: what it the last one you remember?
      12/5/04 20:23:02 Brady_Brandwood: yeah, I have no scroll - somebody is
      PMing me and it knocks me off air.
      12/5/04 20:23:03 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: peepswill need to re-ask
      12/5/04 20:23:27 Brady_Brandwood: yeah, if you get no answer reask.
      12/5/04 20:23:57 kntry: PLEASE DO NOT PM BRADY DURING THE CHAT. IT'S
      12/5/04 20:24:04 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: anybody know how to spell re ask lol
      12/5/04 20:24:15 allen42: not me'
      12/5/04 20:24:16 Brady_Brandwood: last I remember somebody called me an
      *** then i got kicked off.
      12/5/04 20:24:16 danm: lol
      12/5/04 20:24:18 sunshine_kathy: why is that the best with the color
      12/5/04 20:24:28 Lynn: :o
      12/5/04 20:24:45 luke-gr: Brady, Im learning...Are all the fish in group
      C Showas?
      12/5/04 20:25:05 Pacificcoastkoi: the color is coming up not fading
      12/5/04 20:25:08 Brady_Brandwood: sunshine - the Showa is only 18 months
      - and is female - the color is coming - a great fish for a long journey
      - 8 years to be finished and show ready
      12/5/04 20:25:19 Ruth: Hi Brady - you're talking about the 3rd one on
      the top row right
      12/5/04 20:25:28 Brady_Brandwood: yes ruth
      12/5/04 20:25:39 Brady_Brandwood: yes, all in group C are showas
      12/5/04 20:25:45 luke-gr: Not sure Im patient enought for this hobby
      12/5/04 20:25:49 kntry: On the second row, fish 3 & 4, will the little
      sumi they have disappear?
      12/5/04 20:26:04 kntry: No sumi below the skin if visible.
      12/5/04 20:26:23 Brady_Brandwood: the 3rd to right is Art Lembke's Showa
      - I'll grow her for him another year here then she goes to his new
      indoor pond
      12/5/04 20:26:44 danm: pretty
      12/5/04 20:26:47 sunshine_kathy: why the fading
      12/5/04 20:27:06 kntry: Why is the last male on the top so much darker
      at such a young age?
      12/5/04 20:27:06 dasofsky: Brady, do you think food can effect coloring
      of fish?
      12/5/04 20:27:24 Brady_Brandwood: yes kntry, at this age the showa that
      is visible will be replaced with more mature sumi later
      12/5/04 20:27:39 Ruth: Hi is different shade cand you elaborate for
      everyone why this is important?
      12/5/04 20:28:12 Brady_Brandwood: kntry - males will color up more
      quickly, and are a great choice for people who are not patient to wait
      for females to mature.
      12/5/04 20:28:23 danm: luke-gr!
      12/5/04 20:28:40 ma_barker: Brady,...which of these showas is YOUR
      favorite...for the future?
      12/5/04 20:28:47 Brady_Brandwood: dasof - yes, definitely food can
      affect color - i don't recomment ANY color food until 3 to 4 years old
      12/5/04 20:28:50 kntry: If you have a female, would it look more like
      the faded out fish here?
      12/5/04 20:29:15 kntry: Good question Ma.
      12/5/04 20:29:31 Brady_Brandwood: ruth - hi of different shade has more
      to do with bloodlines
      12/5/04 20:29:53 Pacificcoastkoi: brady do you ever try to slow the Sumi
      from maturing too early so the entire fish wil;l finish at the same time
      12/5/04 20:29:59 sunshine_kathy: I thought mine was female! cool!
      12/5/04 20:30:34 Brady_Brandwood: ma barker - the 3rd on top
      12/5/04 20:30:46 BrandiNC: hey everybody!!!!!!
      12/5/04 20:30:54 kntry: Hi Brandi!
      12/5/04 20:30:54 ma_barker: BRANDI!!!!!
      12/5/04 20:30:55 Brady_Brandwood: pacific - no, i let the genetic
      quality take care of that
      12/5/04 20:31:03 pandora: Hey Brandi!!!!
      12/5/04 20:31:07 BrandiNC: sorry yall, but my computer is still
      broken...i am at my moms!
      12/5/04 20:31:07 ma_barker: where are you?
      12/5/04 20:31:10 kntry: Why would you choose the 3rd even though it's faded?
      12/5/04 20:31:10 allen42: BRANDI HUGGS Girl
      12/5/04 20:31:18 BrandiNC: I MISS YALL
      12/5/04 20:31:26 BrandiNC: i cant wait to get my computer back!!!!!
      12/5/04 20:31:40 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: hi Brandi
      12/5/04 20:31:47 L5Vegan: pic a, top center, beautiful fish, Will the hi
      in they pec stay, spread, or go?
      12/5/04 20:31:49 BrandiNC: hey keiko....can i have a slammer?
      12/5/04 20:31:50 Brady_Brandwood: kntry, cause it is not faded, it is
      immature, and has the world in front of it - bottom left is also a favorite
      12/5/04 20:31:57 ma_barker: Brandi...Brady is teaching us...nekkid!!!
      12/5/04 20:32:07 kntry: Will females darken as they mature?
      12/5/04 20:32:12 BrandiNC: oh..i need to shut up then!
      12/5/04 20:32:18 ma_barker: lol
      12/5/04 20:32:22 danm: layer like paint
      12/5/04 20:32:23 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 20:32:26 Brady_Brandwood: is that brandi from the charlotte show?
      12/5/04 20:32:30 BrandiNC: yep!
      12/5/04 20:32:32 ma_barker: yep
      12/5/04 20:32:42 allen42: sho nuff is
      12/5/04 20:32:47 ma_barker: Give us another hug Brady.
      12/5/04 20:32:49 Brady_Brandwood: yes, females darken with time - later
      though than males -
      12/5/04 20:32:56 kntry: Let's go to the Kohakus. Which would be your
      favorite and why?
      12/5/04 20:32:58 BrandiNC: margie, i see that you figured out the chat
      12/5/04 20:33:00 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: she was my dance
      partner..........................I think
      12/5/04 20:33:05 Brady_Brandwood: yes, huggs to you both!
      12/5/04 20:33:09 BrandiNC: yes , you were, keiko
      12/5/04 20:33:12 ma_barker: gander showed me
      12/5/04 20:33:20 ma_barker: Netscape
      12/5/04 20:33:52 BrandiNC: cool..now that i figured it out myself, i
      really really cant wait for my computer anymore...i think i should just
      buy a new one!
      12/5/04 20:33:54 ma_barker: Brady...taking fish to Orlando?
      12/5/04 20:34:10 sunshine_kathy: i like 2nd row 2nd fish,,uniformity of
      12/5/04 20:34:12 Dale: I have been kicked off twice. Anyone else? Each
      time back, it starts over with none of the old comments. Is this correct?
      12/5/04 20:34:19 Brady_Brandwood: L5 - the hi in pec of A top center
      will pull in toward the body as the fish grows and be much less noticeable
      12/5/04 20:34:26 Lynn: I was once, Dale
      12/5/04 20:34:30 ma_barker: once for me Dale
      12/5/04 20:34:41 allen42: < hasnt been kicked off , YET
      12/5/04 20:34:44 Canadian_RedNeck: newbie basic question....body
      shape.....different develment stages, ages...male and female?
      12/5/04 20:34:49 Pacificcoastkoi: brady what is the age of this group
      12/5/04 20:34:52 Dale: Let's hope we keep our connection now!
      12/5/04 20:34:53 Brady_Brandwood: L5 - top center Kohaku pic A - the hi
      in pec will pull in toward the body and be less
      12/5/04 20:34:57 danm: i like bottom left of 'b' and upper right of 'a'
      12/5/04 20:35:11 allen42: 41 here hehhehe
      12/5/04 20:35:19 allen42: sorry , shutting up now
      12/5/04 20:35:20 kntry: When looking for a Kohaku, what pattern is best?
      12/5/04 20:35:23 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 20:35:51 Brady_Brandwood: pacific - kohakus are tosai 6 months -
      showas are nisai 18 months
      12/5/04 20:36:07 Brady_Brandwood: best pattern is what is described in
      judges guide
      12/5/04 20:36:21 kntry: What do you mean by judges guide?
      12/5/04 20:36:25 luke-gr: Brady, your thoughts on Group B, bottom left.
      I would think it would be judged a bit "broken up", but Im partial to
      that fish. Dramatic to me. I see DanM agrees!
      12/5/04 20:36:36 Dale: Brady, I've always wondered....is the hi (red)
      more stable in sanke or showa? My limited experience has been showa more
      stable than sanke.
      12/5/04 20:36:39 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: Brady, do all Showas has black
      inside of their mouth?
      12/5/04 20:36:48 danm: lol
      12/5/04 20:37:06 Pacificcoastkoi: It is much harder for me to discern
      the better of the group from the Kohaku than it was with the Showa
      anyone else have the same idea?
      12/5/04 20:37:07 Brady_Brandwood: ma, yes will be at Orlando - not sure
      with fish - I'm about to announce something new and very exciting!
      12/5/04 20:37:37 L5Vegan: tease
      12/5/04 20:37:40 Lynn: What??? Do tell Brady!!!!
      12/5/04 20:37:40 ma_barker: sneak preview for us???
      12/5/04 20:37:41 danm: announce it then!
      12/5/04 20:37:45 allen42: annouce away
      12/5/04 20:37:49 allen42: hehhehe
      12/5/04 20:37:58 Brady_Brandwood: luke B bottom left os manzo line -
      will pull together and tighten up a lot in the next year
      12/5/04 20:38:08 ma_barker: we won't tell...promise
      12/5/04 20:38:11 danm: GREAT shiro
      12/5/04 20:38:21 Brady_Brandwood: keiko, no not all showas - my new age
      showas have no black in mouth
      12/5/04 20:38:47 kntry: Do the Old Style Showas have black in their mouths?
      12/5/04 20:38:56 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: new age showa.....do they listen
      to Yanni?
      12/5/04 20:39:05 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 20:39:06 Brady_Brandwood: yes, danm, shiro is very important
      like a paintings frame
      12/5/04 20:39:06 danm: lollollol
      12/5/04 20:39:09 allen42: ya nut
      12/5/04 20:39:09 kntry: Only with their wine!
      12/5/04 20:39:20 Canadian_RedNeck: okay....all your pics show varying
      body shapes/types...is that a factor at the ages of koi shown....as
      important as color at that age or not....?
      12/5/04 20:39:23 Brady_Brandwood: yes, yanni & TOOL!
      12/5/04 20:39:31 danm: !!!
      12/5/04 20:39:42 sweetpea: What is the difference in a new age and the
      old world showas?
      12/5/04 20:39:51 Dale: Here's the announcement!!!! - Walmart will
      upgrade their koi supply by selling Brady's first culls!
      12/5/04 20:39:59 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 20:40:03 Lynn: Brady, Are you finding that showas are your most
      popular fish?
      12/5/04 20:40:05 danm: wha?
      12/5/04 20:40:06 Brady_Brandwood: Canadian - the body shapes are a
      bloodline trait and come from the varying parent stock - i work with 3
      males each female
      12/5/04 20:40:10 luke-gr: Clay, you amde it!!
      12/5/04 20:40:15 kntry: lol :?
      12/5/04 20:40:17 Dale: Sorry if that was early, Brady.
      12/5/04 20:40:29 Pacificcoastkoi: The bottom middle kohaku,do you like
      hi in the pecs. at this age does it show that the hi is deep when the
      koi is this size,and that as it grows will it pull back off the pec. fin
      12/5/04 20:40:39 Clay: Thanks for the heads up Luke
      12/5/04 20:40:47 Brady_Brandwood: that's okay dale - cat's out of bag
      now! nope, wrong tree!
      12/5/04 20:41:17 GoFish: Okay Brady if one is planning on buying a 2 yr
      old female showa, do you buy for the kohaku pattern and the red and wait
      for the black to come? or what do you look for in a young showa?
      12/5/04 20:41:21 kntry: When buying a young Kohaku like this, would you
      look for the 3 step?
      12/5/04 20:41:31 Brady_Brandwood: yes, will pull back off peck fin -
      just a pattern thing though, no sign of stronger hi - in my opinion
      12/5/04 20:41:49 BrandiNC: Bye everyone...i am heading home now...not
      sure when i will be getting my computer back, or have access again, so
      yall dont worry..i will be back soon!! I miss all of you, and will see
      you all soon!!.....until next time!! :D
      12/5/04 20:41:57 danm: later!
      12/5/04 20:41:59 kntry: By Brandi
      12/5/04 20:42:01 allen42: bye bye brandi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      12/5/04 20:42:02 Brady_Brandwood: gofish - i don't look for kohaku
      pattern in showa - the black can fill in areas that would look lost on
      12/5/04 20:42:04 BrandiNC: bye yall!!
      12/5/04 20:42:15 ma_barker: bye
      12/5/04 20:42:21 GoFish: so what do you look for?
      12/5/04 20:42:22 Lynn: bye
      12/5/04 20:42:38 Brady_Brandwood: kntry - i prefer stepped patterns with
      a nice shoulder accent personally
      12/5/04 20:42:55 Brady_Brandwood: if a question slips past me - just ask
      it again
      12/5/04 20:43:00 kntry: Let's say you're going to buy your first Kohaku,
      what would you look for?
      12/5/04 20:43:24 danm: what is the specific wing velocity of a european
      12/5/04 20:43:47 Brady_Brandwood: Gofish - i look for quality white,
      quality red, quality sumi, and the potential for a good balanced pattern
      to emerge - and a GOOD body shape
      12/5/04 20:43:47 allen42: huh
      12/5/04 20:44:00 sweetpea: Could you elaborate on the difference between
      ld world and new age showas?
      12/5/04 20:44:05 Brady_Brandwood: danm- how old is the swallow?
      12/5/04 20:44:09 L5Vegan: african or european?
      12/5/04 20:44:14 danm: lol
      12/5/04 20:44:36 luke-gr: echoing sweetpea
      12/5/04 20:44:45 Dale: Asking again......Brady, in your experience is hi
      typically (red) more stable in sanke or showa? My limited experience has
      been that it is more stable in showa's I have had. Yours?
      12/5/04 20:44:55 Brady_Brandwood: the Koi i call my new age showa has a
      modern hi plate - amilk white and sumi that resembles sanke sumi - falls
      in the white areas primarily n the body
      12/5/04 20:45:22 kntry: They also don't have as much sumi, correct?
      12/5/04 20:45:50 Brady_Brandwood: dale - i see the hi on sankes as more
      refined - the hi on traditional showas is different all together
      -develops dofferently - but i don't see any relation to more stable
      12/5/04 20:46:13 Brady_Brandwood: i'll have to get a photo of new age
      showa up - just a sec.
      12/5/04 20:46:18 danm: Is the 'new age' your innovation, or an overall
      trend in the hobby?
      12/5/04 20:46:30 Clay: More spotted than banded Brady?
      12/5/04 20:47:22 allen42: spotted ?as in mullet koi ??
      12/5/04 20:47:24 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 20:47:28 Lynn: wouldn't spotted be more indicative of a sanke
      than a showa?
      12/5/04 20:47:32 Brady_Brandwood: dan- some breeders are doing thir own
      versions - they are unique to the breeders and what they are using as
      12/5/04 20:47:34 Clay: Kindai showa have more white than traditional
      showa. Would you consider your new age showa - kindai?
      12/5/04 20:47:44 Bill_OTMS: Good crowd
      12/5/04 20:47:44 L5Vegan: that's speckled
      12/5/04 20:47:52 allen42: hehehe
      12/5/04 20:48:03 Brady_Brandwood: yes clay, more big blocks of sumi
      falling just below the lateral line
      12/5/04 20:48:24 kntry: Is the hobby trending more toward the new age?
      12/5/04 20:48:41 Pacificcoastkoi: Brady considering the Shoqwa are black
      fish with white and red are you concerned that by breeding the Sumi out
      of Showas you may end up with Showas of a poor quality Sumi?
      12/5/04 20:48:56 Brady_Brandwood: yes clay more kindai - but my goal is
      a better modern hi plate and better sumi on smoking white ground
      12/5/04 20:49:17 kntry: What is the hi plate?
      12/5/04 20:49:22 Brady_Brandwood: kntry - i thinki the hobby swings back
      and forth on trends
      12/5/04 20:49:32 danm: how far along on the goal?
      12/5/04 20:49:52 Clay: I've been on your website drooling. I see the
      quality that you are producing - nice fish and nice of you to share your
      experiences with us - thanks
      12/5/04 20:50:04 danm: echo that
      12/5/04 20:50:19 kntry: Yes, thanks for taking your time to enlighten us!
      12/5/04 20:50:39 Bill_OTMS: What? Are we done?
      12/5/04 20:50:46 kntry: No!
      12/5/04 20:50:47 danm: hope not
      12/5/04 20:50:59 sunshine_kathy: I would like to know if getting that
      painted look to the pattern is just genetics or is there away to
      stimulate development of that type
      12/5/04 20:51:02 Pacificcoastkoi: Should I put my clothes back on
      12/5/04 20:51:02 Clay: Kntry, the Hi plate is the area on a fish that is
      12/5/04 20:51:12 kntry: Thanks, Clay.
      12/5/04 20:51:28 danm: no clothes
      12/5/04 20:51:40 TomO: My question, again. Will black that has faded to
      grey on a showa ever return to black?
      12/5/04 20:51:45 luke-gr: Clay has a new pic up
      12/5/04 20:51:49 Brady_Brandwood: which koi sunshine?
      12/5/04 20:52:02 Brady_Brandwood: I just posted New Age Showa in photo D
      12/5/04 20:52:29 luke-gr: How is it different from Sanke?
      12/5/04 20:52:31 Clay: What's a pic up???
      12/5/04 20:52:32 sunshine_kathy: some sanke i have seen and other koi
      have this beautiful deep almost painted on pattern
      12/5/04 20:52:37 Brady_Brandwood: tom - yes it can - depends on the
      quality of the Koi and the age - if older than 7 possibly not
      12/5/04 20:52:38 Bill_OTMS: Interesting. I like the tancho effect.
      12/5/04 20:52:46 kntry: That looks more like a Sanke to me.
      12/5/04 20:52:59 luke-gr: Clay a new pitcture up in the main Brady thread
      12/5/04 20:53:29 Clay: Thanks Luke
      12/5/04 20:53:42 Bill_OTMS: It is. It's the head character that has the
      12/5/04 20:53:50 danm: looks good for the future
      12/5/04 20:53:50 Brady_Brandwood: yes looks like a little bit sanke & a
      little bit Showa - but larger sumi than sanke
      12/5/04 20:54:20 kntry: When choosing a pattern on a Kohaku, should the
      Hi end at the tail or does it make a difference which color is at the
      tail stop?
      12/5/04 20:55:33 Pacificcoastkoi: what is the age on Showa D
      12/5/04 20:56:12 Bill_OTMS: looks young
      12/5/04 20:56:22 Clay: Brady, I notice in photo D that the red on the
      head is much deeper because it has no scales to go through. Can I assume
      that the fish is on the younger side and that the body beni will deepen
      with age?
      12/5/04 20:56:48 Brady_Brandwood: Pacific - born in '01
      12/5/04 20:56:49 luke-gr: Good Q, Clay. I was assuming the same thing.
      12/5/04 20:56:51 TomO: I got knocked off...so have a stupid question.
      The new age showa is stunning. How is this a black fish...with white and
      red? It looks like a white fish.
      12/5/04 20:56:56 Bill_OTMS: Thanks, Clay. That was my next ??
      12/5/04 20:57:12 Brady_Brandwood: kntry - ideal tail pattern is red
      stops just before tail leaving white break at tail
      12/5/04 20:57:42 Brady_Brandwood: yes clay that's a very nice red - but
      just out of mud and still young
      12/5/04 20:58:09 Clay: That's called odome - where the red breaks and
      has a white section just before the tail.
      12/5/04 20:58:25 Brady_Brandwood: tom - it is not a black fish - thats
      why i call it new age - very different than traditional showa
      12/5/04 20:58:31 Pacificcoastkoi: In new age sHOWA, DO YOU LOOK FOR
      12/5/04 20:58:51 luke-gr: Brady, then how id a showa diff from Sanke? I
      m confused...
      12/5/04 20:58:54 Pacificcoastkoi: hard to type hen your naked
      12/5/04 20:58:56 Brady_Brandwood: pacific - some have - and some do not
      12/5/04 20:59:02 Pacificcoastkoi: and cold
      12/5/04 20:59:03 allen42: lmao
      12/5/04 20:59:10 danm: lol
      12/5/04 20:59:13 luke-gr: at PCK!!
      12/5/04 20:59:28 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: what r u typing w/
      12/5/04 20:59:29 Clay: Brady, when people talk of color of beni they
      want an even color across the whole fish I believe. Then people speak of
      fukurin where you have nice skin between each scale. Should the fukurin
      and the scale match in color?
      12/5/04 20:59:37 Brady_Brandwood: luke - overall appearance of the sumi
      - it falls below lateral line & should be on head too
      12/5/04 20:59:38 sunshine_kathy: *evil* *evil* *evil*
      12/5/04 20:59:58 Brad_Koikichi: Whats the difference between your New
      age and Kindai ?
      12/5/04 21:00:40 luke-gr: So the diff is mainly in location of sumi??
      SOrry, Im learnin'
      12/5/04 2102 Brady_Brandwood: tosai new age showa up in photo E
      12/5/04 2116 Brady_Brandwood: yep luke - good questions
      12/5/04 2146 Brady_Brandwood: yes clay fukurin and scale will match
      12/5/04 2146 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: Brady you don't have any pics of
      your bream
      12/5/04 2154 kntry: Are all new age showas Tancho?
      12/5/04 21:02:04 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 21:02:16 Brady_Brandwood: HAAAAAA keiko - I do have some
      IMPRESSIVE brem - and d=tadpoles too.
      12/5/04 21:02:30 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: I saw them
      12/5/04 21:02:31 sunshine_kathy: allen youre bad
      12/5/04 21:02:34 luke-gr: Id always thought that showa was a "black"
      fish. Never made sense..
      12/5/04 21:02:44 Brady_Brandwood: kntry - many of them are maruten head
      pattern - a consistent pattern style with them
      12/5/04 21:02:46 kntry: I thought the same thing.
      12/5/04 21:02:48 Dale: I was WONDERING when you were going to mention
      your tadpoles!!!
      12/5/04 21:02:48 allen42: moi ? what i do ) innocent smile(
      12/5/04 21:03:21 allen42: < has saw tadpoles sell for a dollar each lol
      i cant figure
      12/5/04 21:03:26 Brady_Brandwood: hey mungo!
      12/5/04 21:03:28 sweetpea: So in pic E. the grey will eventually
      deepened and extend down below the lateral line?
      12/5/04 21:03:34 Clay: As mentioned before sanke is large spots of
      black. True old style showa is bands of black like Utsuri. I also see
      tancho used often tancho is when there is no red on the fish except the
      head. Mauruteen sp?
      12/5/04 21:03:54 Dale: We seined as many tadpoles and crayfish when I
      helped Brady harvest 3 ponds in October. All were QUALITY stock.........
      12/5/04 21:04:02 Brady_Brandwood: sweetp - yes i have more pics
      12/5/04 21:04:04 Clay: continued: Mauruteen is when tancho on the head
      and some red in the body.
      12/5/04 21:04:21 allen42: hehehe
      12/5/04 21:04:36 danm: gotta go folks, thanks brady!
      12/5/04 21:04:38 Brady_Brandwood: yep clay
      12/5/04 21:04:43 allen42: laters Danm
      12/5/04 21:04:47 allen42: take care
      12/5/04 21:04:47 Brady_Brandwood: see ya dan!
      12/5/04 21:04:49 GoFish: What foods are you using?
      12/5/04 21:04:56 ma_barker: Blammo..you're LATE
      12/5/04 21:05:09 ma_barker: *whip*
      12/5/04 21:05:16 Brady_Brandwood: gofish - many foods and suppliment
      with fresh vegs
      12/5/04 21:05:19 allen42: 5ers Blamo
      12/5/04 21:05:39 Brady_Brandwood: blammo - are you undercover?
      12/5/04 21:06:02 sunshine_kathy: Hes supposed to be necked!!!
      12/5/04 21:06:05 ma_barker: maybe he's getting nekkid too
      12/5/04 21:06:14 Clay: He wasn't undercover the other day. Keep yelling
      Brady I see you.
      12/5/04 21:06:26 Bill_OTMS: Not undercove but maybe 3 sheets
      12/5/04 21:06:33 Dale: Do you feed fresh vegs raw? I've heard of
      steaming sweet potato and other vegs. What vegs do you feed?
      12/5/04 21:06:33 Blammo: Im having a fit.. This software....
      12/5/04 21:06:33 allen42: *choochoo*
      12/5/04 21:06:54 ma_barker: well, put your pants back on and try again
      12/5/04 21:07:05 sunshine_kathy: :D :D :D
      12/5/04 21:07:14 Bill_OTMS: software sound like a personal problem.
      We're try to take fish not trout
      12/5/04 21:07:20 Blammo: Ma.... I'll trade yazzzzz
      12/5/04 21:07:25 ma_barker: lol
      12/5/04 21:07:37 ma_barker: sure...you never SHOW UP!!!
      12/5/04 21:07:52 ma_barker: You WILL be in Orlando??????????
      12/5/04 21:07:58 Blammo: Damninit Mini boob
      12/5/04 21:08:08 allen42: hehhehee
      12/5/04 21:08:13 Brady_Brandwood: another pic of tosai new age on photo F
      12/5/04 21:08:14 allen42: teaseing ya suga
      12/5/04 21:08:16 allen42: ehhehhee
      12/5/04 21:08:27 ma_barker: lol
      12/5/04 21:08:29 Brady_Brandwood: ma is a sweetie!
      12/5/04 21:08:37 sunshine_kathy: *slap*
      12/5/04 21:08:37 allen42: sho nuff is !
      12/5/04 21:08:46 allen42: ouch Kathy , was that for me ?
      12/5/04 21:09:05 sunshine_kathy: maybe
      12/5/04 21:09:06 ma_barker: and Kathy's into whips and chains !!!
      12/5/04 21:09:13 allen42: wimmin & thier Maybes !!
      12/5/04 21:09:17 Blammo: Ma.. Lemme attack Brady.. I save you for the
      early mornig hourszzz
      12/5/04 21:09:22 ma_barker: better than no's...
      12/5/04 21:09:30 allen42: sho nuff is Ma hehhee
      12/5/04 21:09:38 ma_barker: sorry darlin...I don't fo mornings
      12/5/04 21:09:49 allen42: psttttttttt kathy , lil harder next time
      12/5/04 21:09:49 ma_barker: do mornings
      12/5/04 21:09:51 allen42: hehhee
      12/5/04 21:09:55 kntry: Brady, When picking out a young Old Style Showa,
      what would you look for?
      12/5/04 21:09:59 allen42: lmao fo morning Ma???
      12/5/04 21:10:06 allen42: 12/5/04 21:10:09 allen42: 12/5/04 21:10:12 ma_barker: or evenings either I guess
      12/5/04 21:10:12 sunshine_kathy: *slap*
      12/5/04 21:10:14 Bill_OTMS: come on guys, it's sunday not saturday
      night. back to fishies
      12/5/04 21:10:22 Ruth: Brady will you keep these fish indoors for the
      winter or do they go back in the mud?
      12/5/04 21:10:24 ma_barker: party pooper
      12/5/04 21:10:27 luke-gr: Im gonna have to compare some showa and sanke
      pics. pitiful when I cant tell 2 of the big three apart...LOL
      12/5/04 21:10:29 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 21:10:30 Clay: Thanks Bill
      12/5/04 21:10:40 allen42: sorry < listening again
      12/5/04 21:10:42 Brady_Brandwood: kntry - i look for good sumi, and not
      too much of it - a good hi pattern with white red and black on the face
      12/5/04 21:10:51 Pacificcoastkoi: Brady will this Sumi deppen up and
      turn to lacquer, like people are use to seeing in Showa
      12/5/04 21:11:03 Bill_OTMS: I only say that cause we ain't got webcams
      going :o
      12/5/04 21:11:24 sunshine_kathy: OH My
      12/5/04 21:11:26 Brady_Brandwood: Ruth - all my Koi stay outdoors - but
      in filtered tanks for the winter - it's mild here
      12/5/04 21:11:31 Clay: They see better sumi on sanke and I think that is
      what Brady is achieving
      12/5/04 21:11:58 Brady_Brandwood: pacific - yes - laquer like on sanke -
      has a shine and also thick
      12/5/04 21:12:16 Dale: Brady, I believe you were posting a picture when
      I asked a question about vegetables you feed your koi. What vegs do you
      feed? Raw or steamed? Cut up or whole?
      12/5/04 21:12:32 TomO: Brady, say more about food. What vegtables...raw
      or cooked, etc.
      12/5/04 21:12:42 Brady_Brandwood: dale - both - they like most all
      12/5/04 21:13:13 Pacificcoastkoi: Brady,is picking new age Showa at
      young ages more difficult than old style Showas at the same age?
      12/5/04 21:13:19 Dale: Both vegetables? both steamed and raw? what vegs,
      12/5/04 21:13:21 Brady_Brandwood: sweet potato - peas - greens - citrus
      fruit - boiled barley
      12/5/04 21:13:24 Clay: I would like to pry out of you what you really
      feed for a pellet. It is almost a religion surrounding food, but I and
      others would really like to know.
      12/5/04 21:13:32 allen42: mine wont eat veggies
      12/5/04 21:13:48 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: they eat BBQ
      12/5/04 21:13:49 Brady_Brandwood: pacific - i see it as easier - more
      predictable sumi
      12/5/04 21:14:08 Clay: They are not use to veggies, but they will eat
      when given time to warm up to the new offering
      12/5/04 21:14:11 allen42: heheh behave Keiko , i already got my hands
      slaped wait , was that my hand ?
      12/5/04 21:14:22 sunshine_kathy: sure they will if ya stop giving them
      ribs! :D
      12/5/04 21:14:29 Brady_Brandwood: clay - i have a LOT of fish - and I
      don't finish them for shows here - pellet is in bulk
      12/5/04 21:15:06 Pacificcoastkoi: allen, I did the same thing
      12/5/04 21:15:08 kntry: Do you feed any type of meat?
      12/5/04 21:15:17 Pacificcoastkoi: koi
      12/5/04 21:15:21 Clay: Let's try the prybar one more time - so what
      pellet in bulk? If you really don't want to share I'll understand.
      12/5/04 21:15:25 Brady_Brandwood: those who show their Koi should use
      highest quality pellets they can fit in budget and add vegs
      12/5/04 21:15:26 luke-gr: Brady, do you wholesale out? Or strictly cull
      and sell yourself? Just curious...
      12/5/04 21:15:42 Brady_Brandwood: luke - i do both
      12/5/04 21:15:56 kntry: BRAND NAMES PLEASE??? :D
      12/5/04 21:16:07 allen42: what ya think about Muzuri feed Brady ???
      12/5/04 21:16:08 Brady_Brandwood: kntry - yes - shrimp - worms - clams -
      12/5/04 21:16:13 Pacificcoastkoi: how many culls before you sell your
      youngest fish?
      12/5/04 21:16:18 allen42: mine loves worms
      12/5/04 21:16:23 Clay: Bigger prybar - so what 2 or 3 pellets do YOU
      consider high quality?
      12/5/04 21:16:40 sweetpea: :D
      12/5/04 21:16:43 kntry: lol
      12/5/04 21:16:48 allen42: hehehe
      12/5/04 21:16:50 luke-gr: Clay, be careful with that thing!!
      12/5/04 21:17:03 Brady_Brandwood: allen - i think mazuri is a good
      staple diet - gets a bad rap from some hobbyists - will yellow skin some
      but is one i have used for years among many
      12/5/04 21:17:12 ma_barker: Clay...I'm in NC..want me to go spy for ya?
      12/5/04 21:17:16 Dale: Prybar won't work, Clay. Not to pry out the best
      high quality feed.
      12/5/04 21:17:22 Blammo: hey... my turn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      12/5/04 21:17:32 allen42: whew , cuz thats all mine get , cept the stuff
      i won @ the show
      12/5/04 21:17:39 Clay: I'm trying to be dipomatic. Thanks for putting up
      with my harassment
      12/5/04 21:17:39 allen42: ty Brady
      12/5/04 21:17:41 Brady_Brandwood: clay - hai feng is good and not
      expensive - chlorella - nozomi - izeki paste
      12/5/04 21:17:46 sunshine_kathy: Why does it yellow them?
      12/5/04 21:17:59 allen42: cuz its yellow feed Sunshine jayus
      12/5/04 21:18:01 allen42: hehhee
      12/5/04 21:18:08 Clay: Thanks Brady. You're a great sport.
      12/5/04 21:18:14 Brady_Brandwood: sunshine - likely because of the
      grains used
      12/5/04 21:18:15 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: Ma, hisfarm is protected by
      Panthers and ticks
      12/5/04 21:18:18 Blammo: hey
      12/5/04 21:18:19 Brad_Koikichi: do you have any concerns with the corn
      in Mazuri
      12/5/04 21:18:21 Blammo: !
      12/5/04 21:18:40 ma_barker: WHAT BLAMM???????????
      12/5/04 21:18:47 luke-gr: hmmmm, corn is yellow
      12/5/04 21:18:49 Blammo: no concern with corn !!
      12/5/04 21:18:52 sunshine_kathy: Thats what I thought you were gonna say!
      12/5/04 21:18:57 Clay: Come on Blam, you're not shy - speak your mind.
      12/5/04 21:19:02 allen42: (wink> hehhehe
      12/5/04 21:19:07 Brady_Brandwood: brad - no concerns - i have used it
      for many years, and I have some Koi that are 14 years old and very
      healthy and look wonderful
      12/5/04 21:19:14 kntry: Only speak English, please!
      12/5/04 21:19:22 Brad_Koikichi: Thank you
      12/5/04 21:19:35 Brady_Brandwood: brad - we should always suppliment any
      pellet food with fresh food
      12/5/04 21:19:37 allen42: i buy muzuri for 18 dollars for 20 pounds
      12/5/04 21:19:46 Brad_Koikichi: Oh yes
      12/5/04 21:19:49 Blammo: Brady, Brett and I feed the same.... It works
      12/5/04 21:20:00 sunshine_kathy: Have you used Kiegler
      12/5/04 21:20:04 allen42: Blamo , ya use Murzi too ?
      12/5/04 21:20:09 kntry: When you feed shrimp, clam, etc. is it fresh and
      whole or ground up? Do you feed shrimp shells?
      12/5/04 21:20:12 Brady_Brandwood: yes by fresh i mean fresh vegs and
      live foods
      12/5/04 21:20:14 allen42: < hasnt Sunshine
      12/5/04 21:20:22 ma_barker: Do ya'll hate Rangen too?
      12/5/04 21:20:32 allen42: < never used it either Ma
      12/5/04 21:20:39 kntry: Live Shrimp?
      12/5/04 21:20:43 Brady_Brandwood: yes - shrimp in shells - i cut the
      sharp spline out of tail then cut shrimp in pieces and feed
      12/5/04 21:20:53 kntry: Oh, ok!
      12/5/04 21:21:00 Brad_Koikichi: does rangen make koi food ?
      12/5/04 21:21:00 Brady_Brandwood: boiled shrimp
      12/5/04 21:21:06 Clay: I do - gave that massive Zhit producing stuff
      away to an aquaintance. Wouldn't give Rangen to a friend.
      12/5/04 21:21:09 kntry: Ma, what's wrong with Rangen?
      12/5/04 21:21:21 sunshine_kathy: Will blood worms make them redder????
      12/5/04 21:21:23 allen42: lol any shrimp around here gets boiled ,
      ****** if the fish gonna get it !
      12/5/04 21:21:26 Blammo: Ohh Yeah.. Rangen too. I',m playing with
      Zeigler with my.. ummm. Longfin hybrid Indonesian carp, as per Vance
      12/5/04 21:21:33 ma_barker: I don't hate it...but some do
      12/5/04 21:21:40 Clay: Kntry, tons of waste
      12/5/04 21:21:48 Bill_OTMS: Brady, What do you use to keep mineral
      balance in your ponds (Ca, Mg, etc)?
      12/5/04 21:21:48 Brad_Koikichi: I thought it was Trout / Catfish chow
      12/5/04 21:21:53 sunshine_kathy: Where do you get your feed Blammo
      12/5/04 21:21:54 allen42: prolly Sunshine hehhee
      12/5/04 21:21:56 ma_barker: speak english Blamm!
      12/5/04 21:21:59 kntry: Great, I just bought 150 lbs. of it to try with
      4 others.
      12/5/04 21:22:15 ma_barker: Gene feeds it
      12/5/04 21:22:16 Brady_Brandwood: hobbyists with high end Koi should
      feed a better quality pellet than rangen or mazuri - but both are decent
      for feeding lots and lots of fish for budget reasons
      12/5/04 21:22:20 ma_barker: so do I
      12/5/04 21:22:39 ma_barker: never noticed anything bad....but I'm new
      12/5/04 21:22:41 Blammo: Thanks, Br
      12/5/04 21:22:42 allen42: < has no high end fishes
      12/5/04 21:23:01 kntry: So to get less waste output, feed Hai Feng,
      Chlorella, Nozomi or Izeki paste?
      12/5/04 21:23:03 allen42: but tthey get red worms & muzuri
      12/5/04 21:23:08 Clay: I have 9 fish left as of today - culled two more
      out of the collection - it's easy to afford to feed better food to a
      smaller collection like mine.
      12/5/04 21:23:15 Brady_Brandwood: if i were a hobbyist again - i would
      feed primarily vegs and meats
      12/5/04 21:23:29 Brady_Brandwood: yes definitely the way to go clay
      12/5/04 21:23:38 ma_barker: is imitation crab meat okay?
      12/5/04 21:23:47 Blammo: Brady,, Meats ?? Elaborate
      12/5/04 21:24:02 Bill_OTMS: So what's high end food?
      12/5/04 21:24:04 Pacificcoastkoi: do you let the meat goet a little
      funky before you feed it?
      12/5/04 21:24:07 Dale: Brady, I feed mazuri, buyt it is less than 50% of
      what they eat. Vegs, clam meat, shrimp, worms, bugs, etc. Is a decent
      low end pellet ok in a diet mix like this? Or should I spring for better?
      12/5/04 21:24:17 Brady_Brandwood: immitation crab is processed stuff -
      it has some protein content but shrimp is better
      12/5/04 21:24:41 kntry: What about beef heart?
      12/5/04 21:24:44 Blammo: I use softshell blue crab.. allot
      12/5/04 21:24:49 ma_barker: I must be too poor for this hobby
      12/5/04 21:24:59 allen42: me & you both Ma lol
      12/5/04 21:25:01 kntry: WHAT??? You better send that to me!
      12/5/04 21:25:01 ma_barker: **** fish eat
      12/5/04 21:25:02 Brady_Brandwood: dale i think better is better :0 but
      your ratio is pretty good, and your Koi look GREAT!
      12/5/04 21:25:30 allen42: : @ Sunshine
      12/5/04 21:25:31 Dale: Aw shucks, Brady. ARe you tryin' to seel me
      12/5/04 21:25:35 kntry: What type of bugs?
      12/5/04 21:25:40 allen42: crickets
      12/5/04 21:25:53 kntry: Do you feed them live?
      12/5/04 21:25:54 Brady_Brandwood: yes Dale some fine looking tadpoles!
      12/5/04 21:25:56 Clay: Shrimp, prawns, haddock, anchovie, crab etc for
      good meats. I use to do the homemade paste food. I live Hi-Silk 21 mixed
      with Hikari, but I don't know if that is thee best stuff - but
      affordable in the small stable that I keep.
      12/5/04 21:25:58 sunshine_kathy: :o :/
      12/5/04 21:25:59 allen42: i do , yes
      12/5/04 21:26:10 ma_barker: mine are afraid of crickets, lol
      12/5/04 21:26:12 Brady_Brandwood: yep clay!
      12/5/04 21:26:16 Blammo: Bug zapperz. Buy one and hang it over the tank
      12/5/04 21:26:16 allen42: lol @ Ma
      12/5/04 21:26:26 allen42: good idea Blamo !!!!
      12/5/04 21:26:26 Dale: Bugs - lots of crickets, grasshoppers, flys if
      you can swat 'em. They'll eat any bug.
      12/5/04 21:26:30 Brady_Brandwood: How many of us are REALLY naked?
      12/5/04 21:26:41 allen42: < Blush>
      12/5/04 21:26:44 kntry: Do I have to answer? lol
      12/5/04 21:26:47 luke-gr: Nobody has seen the size of the crickets in
      Welcome, NC!!
      12/5/04 21:26:49 Dale: WEll, I have a sock on. Does that count?
      12/5/04 21:26:53 hacnp: not eye popeye
      12/5/04 21:26:59 allen42: LMAO Luke , ya sacerd me for a sec
      12/5/04 21:27:03 sunshine_kathy: Sport bra only!
      12/5/04 21:27:04 allen42: scared me too
      12/5/04 21:27:05 ma_barker: depends on where the sock is!
      12/5/04 21:27:06 Pacificcoastkoi: not anymore, its too cold, joint got
      too stiff
      12/5/04 21:27:06 sweetpea: :p
      12/5/04 21:27:09 Brady_Brandwood: What kind of sock Dale?
      12/5/04 21:27:12 allen42: 12/5/04 21:27:17 Blammo: Me.. from the neck up
      12/5/04 21:27:19 allen42: LMAO Ma
      12/5/04 21:27:20 Dale: A koi sock...........
      12/5/04 21:27:25 luke-gr: Tooooooob sock
      12/5/04 21:27:34 Clay: Brady, you couldn't help yourself could you? It's
      so easy to go to sex. They say it crosses the male mind quite often.
      12/5/04 21:27:43 kntry: Must be a small koi sock! :?
      12/5/04 21:27:52 allen42: sex , some body mention sex?
      12/5/04 21:27:55 ma_barker: yeah...their minds...LOL
      12/5/04 21:27:59 kntry: Does it ever leave?
      12/5/04 21:28:00 sweetpea: Cooked fish?
      12/5/04 21:28:01 allen42: Lmao Knty
      12/5/04 21:28:03 Brady_Brandwood: yeah clay - imagine what we could get
      done in a day otherwise.
      12/5/04 21:28:20 sunshine_kathy: Well....whats wrong with hormones, I
      bet some koi have been given a few!!!
      12/5/04 21:28:41 allen42: < what sunshine said
      12/5/04 21:28:41 Clay: Anything that lived in water should be cooked so
      that you don't pass along anything nasty - my opinion.
      12/5/04 21:28:46 Blammo: ndy !!!!!!!!!!!!
      12/5/04 21:28:53 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: Watch the sex talk Grey is watching
      12/5/04 21:28:53 kntry: Back to koi food! Where can you buy all these
      bugs during the winter?
      12/5/04 21:29:05 ma_barker: yeah, but he can't READ!!!
      12/5/04 21:29:08 Blammo: sandyy
      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
      12/5/04 21:29:09 sweetpea: Thanks, Clay
      12/5/04 21:29:10 allen42: Brady , do ya breed ya koi errrrrr by hand of
      yet them take care of things themselfs?
      12/5/04 21:29:25 sweetpea: :D
      12/5/04 21:29:30 Brady_Brandwood: allen - all scheduled out - but they
      do the work
      12/5/04 21:29:31 allen42: ~~~waves @ Grey
      12/5/04 21:29:35 sunshine_kathy: Shame on u allen!
      12/5/04 21:29:35 Dale: Kntry......you don't need bugs diring the
      winter.. The koi don't EAT during the winter.
      12/5/04 21:29:47 Pacificcoastkoi: you breed your koi????
      12/5/04 21:29:48 allen42: ahh ok
      12/5/04 21:29:49 kntry: My koi do. I live in the deep South!
      12/5/04 21:30:11 kntry: My water rarely gets under 55F.
      12/5/04 21:30:11 allen42: SOME breeders , milk the eggs & sperm & mix it
      up !
      12/5/04 21:30:14 Clay: Koi eat in heated indoor systems in Wisconsin too.
      12/5/04 21:30:14 Brady_Brandwood: yes pacific - all here in NC
      12/5/04 21:30:24 ma_barker: you can get crickets at the bait shop
      12/5/04 21:30:32 allen42: sho nuff Ma
      12/5/04 21:30:44 Dale: Sorry.......I'm like Brady. My koi shiver a bit
      in the witner.
      12/5/04 21:30:49 Brady_Brandwood: cmungo - you with us?
      12/5/04 21:31:02 allen42: : @ Sunshine again hehhee
      12/5/04 21:31:02 ma_barker: Brady how far are ya from W-Salem?
      12/5/04 21:31:05 kntry: Thanks Ma. They sell crickets everywhere here
      but not grasshoppers. I've tried worms and they won't eat them.
      12/5/04 21:31:15 cmungo: Yea, it took a while to find you.
      12/5/04 21:31:15 Clay: There are kits to make your own worm farm and
      they are very high in protein.
      12/5/04 21:31:32 Blammo: BS
      12/5/04 21:31:33 kntry: Are you talking earthworm or red worms?
      12/5/04 21:31:54 Ruth: Well thanks you all if I stay on here any longer
      I will not get ANYTHING Done - bye
      12/5/04 21:31:55 Brady_Brandwood: ma - winston is an odd trip from here
      - about 1 hr 20 min from greensboro
      12/5/04 21:31:57 allen42: mine eat redworms , my daddy raises em
      12/5/04 21:32:07 allen42: bye bye Ruth
      12/5/04 21:32:07 ma_barker: I'll come see ya, if you put your socks on.
      12/5/04 21:32:12 kntry: I have tons of earthworms but the fish let them
      sink and die.
      12/5/04 21:32:15 Bill_OTMS: You don't need a kit to do a worm bin. If
      you're interested, PM me i'll send you DIY plans. piece of cake to make
      12/5/04 21:32:20 Brady_Brandwood: bye ruth
      12/5/04 21:32:23 cmungo: Sorry, I missed the first hour.
      12/5/04 21:32:27 kntry: Thanks, Bill, I will.
      12/5/04 21:32:27 Clay: Red or nightcrawlers would be great. Nightcrawler
      I would think give you more protein for the investment in time since
      they are larger.
      12/5/04 21:32:27 sweetpea: OMG, throw a couple worms and watch the frenzy!!
      12/5/04 21:32:56 kntry: I thought nightcrawlers were crickets???
      12/5/04 21:33:11 ma_barker: you ain't a fisherman are ya Sandy?
      12/5/04 21:33:13 Dale: Kntry, I have NEVER seen a koi refuse a worm.
      What have you done to them?
      12/5/04 21:33:17 Bill_OTMS: Nope. The big guys you see after it rains
      12/5/04 21:33:19 Ron_C: Night crawlers are worns
      12/5/04 21:33:24 Ron_C: worms too
      12/5/04 21:33:25 kntry: I spoil them!
      12/5/04 21:33:26 luke-gr: Ncrawlers are worms. Looooong worms
      12/5/04 21:33:36 Clay: My fish after not eating shrimp for a while will
      get picky - but something is pretty much instinctive about a worm -
      never a hesitation there
      12/5/04 21:33:46 kntry: In this here part of the country their called
      12/5/04 21:33:55 sweetpea: obscenely long, sometimes!!
      12/5/04 21:34:02 kntry: I guess they got used to Cajun food!
      12/5/04 21:34:02 Ron_C: Not that I have ever heard
      12/5/04 21:34:24 Bill_OTMS: It's better to leave the NCs in the ground.
      They're better for your soil than the koi. Breed the red wiggelers.
      12/5/04 21:34:40 sweetpea: kntry, where do you live?
      12/5/04 21:34:40 luke-gr: Kntry what do you call the little black
      grasshopper like things?
      12/5/04 21:34:42 Ron_C:
      12/5/04 21:34:43 ma_barker: Sandy darlin.....ya need to hang out at the
      boat dock more often
      12/5/04 21:34:46 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: obscenely long....I'm not nekkid???
      12/5/04 21:34:56 allen42: OMG Keiko
      12/5/04 21:34:59 allen42: ya bad
      12/5/04 21:35:01 sweetpea: :D
      12/5/04 21:35:06 kntry: Why do I need to hang out at the boat dock, Ma?
      12/5/04 21:35:12 Blammo: Brady.. effect of sunlight on hi
      developement.Yall ! quiet
      12/5/04 21:35:12 allen42: slap him Koibie
      12/5/04 21:35:13 luke-gr: I was going to thank sweetpea, but thought it
      12/5/04 21:35:15 Brady_Brandwood: keiko - were you drunk at the bar in
      12/5/04 21:35:17 kntry: Sweetpea, I live in Southern Louisiana
      12/5/04 21:35:22 ma_barker: cause Nightcrawlers ain't crickets
      12/5/04 21:35:32 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: yes
      12/5/04 21:35:37 ma_barker: ya got your bait mixed up!!!
      12/5/04 21:35:46 cmungo: I've never tried to feed anything but pellets.
      It sounds like I need to rethink that idea.
      12/5/04 21:35:47 Brady_Brandwood: yes blammo - needed - lack of sun
      reverts hi back to weak
      12/5/04 21:36:04 Bill_OTMS: Actually, Nightcrawler use to be my nickname :o
      12/5/04 21:36:06 kntry: Ma - :o
      12/5/04 21:36:10 Brady_Brandwood: yeah, your eyes were like an atlas.
      12/5/04 21:36:16 sweetpea: Well, keiko, you are more than welcome!!
      12/5/04 21:36:41 Blammo: sunlight in relation to hi/beni in tosai
      12/5/04 21:36:41 Pacificcoastkoi: if you put them back in the sun will
      the color come back?
      12/5/04 21:36:55 sweetpea: sorry blamm!!!!
      12/5/04 21:37:15 Blammo:
      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
      12/5/04 21:37:36 Brady_Brandwood: yes color will come back - a friend
      who sells koi keeps them in a barn & they become more red a couple weeks
      after taken to an outdoor pond
      12/5/04 21:37:47 kntry: So would a diet of 50% live bugs and shrimp and
      clams and 50% veggies be optimum?
      12/5/04 21:38:02 Bill_OTMS: Back to high end food. What brands???
      12/5/04 21:38:05 Brady_Brandwood: sounds great kntry - a good diet
      12/5/04 21:38:23 sweetpea: no pellets needed?
      12/5/04 21:38:32 Dale: Kntry, that diet would be better than most people
      in 3rd world countries!
      12/5/04 21:38:33 Bill_OTMS: so where's the voting poll??????????
      12/5/04 21:38:34 Brady_Brandwood: I think chlorella is good - nozomi is
      good - izeki paste is good
      12/5/04 21:38:47 Blammo: cr,,, ya know beeterzzzzzzzzz.
      12/5/04 21:39:08 Pacificcoastkoi: does anyone have Izeki?
      12/5/04 21:39:09 kntry: Dale I agree! But what about for the koi!
      12/5/04 21:39:15 Brady_Brandwood: I think hai feng wheat is a great food
      - also hikari is not bad
      12/5/04 21:39:19 Dale: Brady, what do you think of bil's paste food
      recipe that a lot of people mention?
      12/5/04 21:39:25 Brad_Koikichi: I have Izeki
      12/5/04 21:39:34 Brady_Brandwood: I haven't tried bils paste food
      12/5/04 21:39:49 Bill_OTMS: I've been very impressed with the HF Wheat
      12/5/04 21:39:50 kntry: What is in the paste food?
      12/5/04 21:39:51 Brady_Brandwood: i like the list of ingredients though
      12/5/04 21:39:54 Brad_Koikichi: heard ther was a shortage and stocked up
      12/5/04 21:40:02 Blammo: i had izeki... penecilllin cured it
      12/5/04 21:40:30 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: lol
      12/5/04 21:40:39 KoiKid: ((?))
      12/5/04 21:40:39 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 21:40:41 Dale: Kntry, I've fed only 50% pellets for the past 2
      years with a lot of the other stuff mentioned here to make up the rest.
      Brady has seen my fish, I think he'll vouch for their color, sheen and
      body shape.
      12/5/04 21:40:42 Brady_Brandwood: did it put out the fire blammo?
      12/5/04 21:40:47 allen42: hi koikid
      12/5/04 21:40:49 Bill_OTMS: kntry - email me I'll send you bil's recipe
      12/5/04 21:41:09 kntry: Ok, thanks Bill!
      12/5/04 21:41:13 KoiKid: Um, hello? May I ask what you guys are talking
      about? ((Is it adult only stuff?))
      12/5/04 21:41:14 Brady_Brandwood: yes - dale is doing things right there
      in lexington
      12/5/04 21:41:21 luke-gr: ok everyone there's an eleven year old!!
      12/5/04 21:41:33 Blammo: i reckon bro.. when these boobzzzz get done
      playin.. call me.. collect
      12/5/04 21:41:41 Dale: Kntry, I believe bil's paste food recipe has been
      posted on koiphen. Do a search. It's also on koivet.
      12/5/04 21:41:42 Brady_Brandwood: we were tslking about Nintendo Koi kid
      12/5/04 21:41:44 Clay: Bil's paste food let's see if it posts:
      12/5/04 21:42:00 Bill_OTMS: it is
      12/5/04 21:42:06 KoiKid: Nintendos need food?
      12/5/04 21:42:22 Bill_OTMS: little mariobugers
      12/5/04 21:42:26 Brady_Brandwood: yep, 120 volts,
      12/5/04 21:42:30 Clay: Sorry, couldn't copy and paste here. Will put it
      on Brady's discussion with the photos if anyone is interested.
      12/5/04 21:42:35 Blammo: the kid izz bd to the bone !!!!!!!!!
      awesomeness !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      12/5/04 21:42:40 kntry: Sorry ya'll.
      12/5/04 21:42:46 Bill_OTMS: thanks, clay
      12/5/04 21:43:04 TomO: I've got to go. Thanks for the chat. Brady...I
      learned a couple of new things. Thanks.
      12/5/04 21:43:15 Brady_Brandwood: thanks tom - see ya!
      12/5/04 21:43:20 Blammo: william.. call me
      12/5/04 21:43:38 Bill_OTMS: now
      12/5/04 21:43:40 KoiKid: ...I'm scared
      12/5/04 21:43:48 Brady_Brandwood: me too koikid
      12/5/04 21:44:01 sweetpea: :D
      12/5/04 21:44:11 Bill_OTMS: be afraid, be very afraid
      12/5/04 21:44:12 Blammo: kid...homework
      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      12/5/04 21:44:15 Dale: Let's hear from the folks who read to their koi.
      Pipe in underwater music. Swim with their koi. I know you're out there
      cause I've met some crazy people in this hobby. Just none of those
      12/5/04 21:44:16 Jeff_R.: I thought this started at 8:00 Eastern Time?
      12/5/04 21:44:28 sunshine_kathy: What about that deep painted pattern I
      was talking about earlier?
      12/5/04 21:44:49 Pacificcoastkoi: it did
      12/5/04 21:44:52 Brady_Brandwood: yep sunshine - i don't understand what
      you are mentioning
      12/5/04 21:45:07 Brady_Brandwood: example sunshine?
      12/5/04 21:45:11 sunshine_kathy: be back
      12/5/04 21:45:29 Bill_OTMS: goin to make a phone call, later
      12/5/04 21:45:32 Clay: I talk to my koi when I feed them. I have been
      striving for the Pavlovic response. I talk - they associate the sound
      with food and come running
      12/5/04 21:45:38 Brady_Brandwood: see ya bill!
      12/5/04 21:45:51 Blammo: And William thought I was
      12/5/04 21:46:03 Brady_Brandwood: i have to admit i talk to my koi - all
      50,000 of them
      12/5/04 21:46:04 Dale: Clay.....I knew there was one out there!
      12/5/04 21:46:21 Dale: Two!!!!!
      12/5/04 21:46:52 Blammo: You better not have that many !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      12/5/04 21:47:00 Brady_Brandwood: dale - the girl falling in the hole
      m-peg had me rolling in the floor - WOW! what a fall
      12/5/04 21:47:02 GoFish: Clay must be the cheese!!!!!!!!!!!
      12/5/04 21:47:08 hacnp: dale the crazy ones hear the koi talk back *)
      12/5/04 21:47:13 kntry: I talk to mine every day. But I don't sing to
      them. They's really be ugly then!
      12/5/04 21:47:14 allen42: lol
      12/5/04 21:47:26 sweetpea: I talk to mine...I spend a lot of time here
      by myself!! lol
      12/5/04 21:47:33 Brady_Brandwood: how many swim with their koi?
      12/5/04 21:47:36 KoiKid: ...If I sung to them... I'd need a new tank!
      12/5/04 21:47:43 dOHd: I do
      12/5/04 21:47:43 KoiKid: And I can't
      12/5/04 21:47:45 Blammo: Blammo
      12/5/04 21:47:49 Dale: Brady, glad you liked it. It is a classic!
      Anybody wants it, just PM me or Brady and we'll tickel your giggle box!
      12/5/04 21:47:58 KoiKid: I can't fit in a 20 gallon...
      12/5/04 21:48:04 sweetpea: me,when I clean out the pond
      12/5/04 21:48:10 Clay: Brady, back to Koi D. Does that fish have black
      inside of it's mouth? I know a sanke when I see one and a showa when I
      see one but D is close. Gofish - it must be the cheese
      12/5/04 21:48:12 Michael_K: I'm not putting my rear in the same water as
      my koi.
      12/5/04 21:48:15 Brady_Brandwood: I was afraid I would get bad karma if
      I laughed too much.
      12/5/04 21:48:42 Brady_Brandwood: Hey Michael K
      12/5/04 21:48:51 Michael_K: Hiya Brady.
      12/5/04 21:48:54 Brady_Brandwood: clay - no black in the mouth
      12/5/04 21:49:18 sweetpea: I do put the waders on.....well most of the time
      12/5/04 21:49:32 Clay: Hey, I often say you must listen to your fish for
      they are talking to you. Maybe not in words, but if you are listening
      they can tell you of possible problems that you will notice with your
      fish that no one else would find.
      12/5/04 21:49:34 Brady_Brandwood: i'll get up a pic of D at Nisai
      12/5/04 21:50:01 Pacificcoastkoi: I swam with the fishes when the top
      came off my bottom drain
      12/5/04 21:50:44 Ron_C: I get in my pond all the time.
      12/5/04 21:50:48 Clay: No Black in the mouth, no black on the pecks on
      tail and none on the head. The bands of black would be it. Hard to bench
      in a show???
      12/5/04 21:51:07 Dale: Folks, I must be off. Enjoyed the chat. Brady is
      the best, but don't let him loan you any rubber boots if you're going
      wading....cause they will have big holes in them and your feet will get wet!
      12/5/04 21:51:15 Brady_Brandwood: yep clay - not a show fish - but a
      brood fish
      12/5/04 21:51:35 sweetpea: I think that it's a good thing to get in the
      pond.....bird's eye view of the fish
      12/5/04 21:51:40 sunshine_kathy: i posted a pic with some of what i mean
      on your thread
      12/5/04 21:51:51 Brady_Brandwood: see ya dale - those boots didn't have
      holes in them when i loaned them to you.
      12/5/04 21:52:13 Dale: Those were OLD holes Brady........
      12/5/04 21:52:56 kntry: I'd love to get in my pond and get up close and
      personal with my fish. But I'm afeared of the snakes! :o
      12/5/04 21:52:58 luke-gr: sunshine just posted a pic, What is it?
      12/5/04 21:52:59 Brady_Brandwood: Oh,... those may have been my tadpole
      catchers then.
      12/5/04 21:53:04 Dale: And the socks you loaned me were worse than the
      12/5/04 21:53:05 Clay: There really are nasties that you can catch from
      fish - would never recomend swimming with our koi.Besides soaps on your
      body or left in your clothes would not be good for the fish.
      12/5/04 21:53:33 Brady_Brandwood: those weren't socks,... they were
      12/5/04 21:53:44 Michael_K: OK Brady, (and I hate to bore everyone here
      for a moment) Tomoin versus Yagozen, if left un-*******ized, what are
      some basic differences to a trained eye?
      12/5/04 21:54:01 Dale: On that, I'm outa here! ceya.
      12/5/04 21:54:09 Michael_K: Not a loaded question.
      12/5/04 21:54:14 sunshine_kathy: some koi have an almost painted look
      like. Its not all over that koi but the red is it hu? looks almost
      painted on
      12/5/04 21:54:24 Ron_C: bye Dale
      12/5/04 21:54:30 allen42: wb Sunshine
      12/5/04 21:55:05 kntry: Clay, what's the difference between swimming in
      the koi pond and swimming in a river? There's fish there also.
      12/5/04 21:55:32 Pacificcoastkoi: koi pond is a closed system and a
      river is not
      12/5/04 21:56:14 sunshine_kathy: Whats wb
      12/5/04 21:56:33 allen42: welcome back
      12/5/04 21:56:34 Ron_C: welcome back
      12/5/04 21:56:40 sunshine_kathy: whie back! oh I get it
      12/5/04 21:56:46 allen42: lmao
      12/5/04 21:56:52 allen42: :
      12/5/04 21:56:55 Pacificcoastkoi: i have to go.Thanks alot everyone
      12/5/04 21:57:03 allen42: Later Pacific
      12/5/04 21:57:11 Clay: Have you ever heard of swimmers itch. I might be
      wrong, but one of the things that JR said you can catch from swimming
      with your koi I thought was TB. There are other pathogens that can
      invade the human body. Maybe Brady could help list some of the -
      12/5/04 21:57:19 sunshine_kathy: :? *beep*
      12/5/04 21:57:22 Brady_Brandwood: tomoin is more like Dainichi or the
      Kohakus the Matsunosuke (Sakai) brothers produce - big bold with big hi
      patterns - Yagozen is more elegant - smaller patterns
      12/5/04 21:57:27 Clay: continued: things that could affect us.
      12/5/04 21:57:39 Canadian_RedNeck: okay....sorry for being such a
      newbie, brady, but here goes...what are the important determining
      factors when looking at a koi for identification purposes only....and in
      order if there is such a thing?
      12/5/04 21:58:31 Brady_Brandwood: Tomoin goes from orange to red -
      Yagozen starts red and dips a little at 3 to 5 then goes red again
      12/5/04 21:58:46 luke-gr: yeah, seems like I saw an order of things to
      look at for classification...
      12/5/04 21:58:54 Brady_Brandwood: the whites are different also -
      yagozen white has snow like tiny glitters in it
      12/5/04 21:58:55 Michael_K: OK, thats close to my understanding up to
      this point. Do you see any difference in beni depth/color?
      12/5/04 21:59:16 Michael_K: Got it, thanks.
      12/5/04 22:00:00 kntry: Gotta go, ya'll. I'll catch up after the chat is
      saved. Brady, thanks a million. It's been very interesting.
      12/5/04 22:00:04 Brady_Brandwood: yes - we would have to look into a
      bowl together to compare well - yagozen and manzo reds look close
      12/5/04 22:00:20 Brady_Brandwood: thanks kntry - see ya!
      12/5/04 22:00:53 hacnp: been very good, but I gotta go nite all!
      12/5/04 22:00:57 Michael_K: Yeah, always thought the old photos of Manzo
      and Yagozen looked quite similar.
      12/5/04 2200 Brady_Brandwood: canadian - body first -is the body
      good - then overall impression of the whole package
      12/5/04 2216 Brady_Brandwood: see ya hacnp
      12/5/04 2227 allen42: ok yall, i gots to be going as well
      12/5/04 2230 allen42: 5ers guys
      12/5/04 2233 allen42: huggs ladies
      12/5/04 2235 allen42: nite yall
      12/5/04 2241 Brad_Koikichi: Brady thanks for the Chat Chow Time
      12/5/04 2243 Brady_Brandwood: yep - beni is close but body is
      different - and face too
      12/5/04 2259 pandora: NITE ALLEN!!!!
      12/5/04 2259 Brady_Brandwood: see ya allen 42 & brad
      12/5/04 22:02:03 sunshine_kathy: Thanks Brady!!!!!!
      12/5/04 22:02:37 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: l8er allen
      12/5/04 22:02:44 Clay: Canadian Redneck - PM on the way
      12/5/04 22:02:53 Canadian_RedNeck: thanks clay..
      12/5/04 22:03:04 Brady_Brandwood: see ya pandora & sunshine
      12/5/04 22:03:32 pandora: i'm still listening brady . . . Allen was
      leaving . . .
      12/5/04 22:03:54 pandora: I'm too green to speak . . . but i'm
      listening!!!! :D
      12/5/04 22:03:56 Brady_Brandwood: ooops Pandora.
      12/5/04 22:04:00 Canadian_RedNeck: i guess was i am looking for is a
      reference that says if a is this...then go to b...and if b is
      this....look at c....clear as mud?
      12/5/04 22:04:11 sweetpea: night guys!!! Thanks so much Brady...the
      sponge has been working overtime tonight!!!
      12/5/04 22:04:26 Brady_Brandwood: see ya sweetpea.
      12/5/04 22:04:54 luke-gr: Yeah, a step by step for classification. I
      know scale type is first (I think)
      12/5/04 22:05:07 Brady_Brandwood: canadian - it's a very long road -
      there is no clear as mud.
      12/5/04 22:05:28 Keiko,_The_Killer_Koi: Thanks Brady! ...how do you like
      OS X?
      12/5/04 22:05:30 Brady_Brandwood: Do you mean types of Koi?
      12/5/04 22:05:46 Canadian_RedNeck: i gathered that ...... and it is one
      i want to learn...or at least attempt...types of koi and then the
      12/5/04 22:06:02 Brady_Brandwood: Keiko - I still use 9 on this computer
      - but new gets here next week - see ya!
      12/5/04 22:06:04 Canadian_RedNeck: like a decision tree..not sure what
      to call it..
      12/5/04 22:06:24 luke-gr: flowchart
      12/5/04 22:06:35 Brady_Brandwood: There are charts for the varieties
      that you can learn from
      12/5/04 22:06:41 koibie: nite all
      12/5/04 22:06:50 Brady_Brandwood: Koi kichi has some excellent drawings
      12/5/04 22:06:54 ma_barker: And Gene's ID CD helps
      12/5/04 22:06:57 Brady_Brandwood: nite koibie
      12/5/04 22:06:58 Clay: PM sent Canadian Redneck. A site about koi
      12/5/04 22:07:03 ma_barker: nite Elle
      12/5/04 22:07:09 Michael_K: Metallic vs. Non is a good place to start.
      12/5/04 22:07:14 Canadian_RedNeck: i am trying to get a chart.......
      12/5/04 22:07:24 luke-gr: Clay, I would like a PM as well.. whatever you
      12/5/04 22:07:40 Canadian_RedNeck: but it is the mental process that i
      want to learn...the thinking behind the chart...
      12/5/04 22:08:03 Brady_Brandwood: A deep one Canadian
      12/5/04 22:08:07 Canadian_RedNeck: the thought process that is used...
      12/5/04 22:08:43 Canadian_RedNeck: or the process of elimination might
      be another way to look at it..
      12/5/04 22:08:58 luke-gr: This koi stuff is kinda difficult. Unlike dogs
      with different breeds, we are basically discussing patterns/colors and
      the differences
      12/5/04 22:09:38 Canadian_RedNeck: yes but body shape, patterns, colors
      dictate the species, not?
      12/5/04 22:10:15 Clay: Let's see if I can just post it here:
      12/5/04 22:10:20 Jeff_R.: Has conformation already been discussed?
      12/5/04 22:11:43 luke-gr: BIG diffeernces in body shapes, though
      12/5/04 22:13:37 Brady_Brandwood: Okay I'm out - see you all!
      Last edited by Canadian RedNeck; 12-05-2004 at 11:42 PM.

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