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    Thread: PLEASE HELP! Rock removal job worst than expected/filter media in question

    1. #1
      beckesj is offline Senior Member
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      PLEASE HELP! Rock removal job worst than expected/filter media in question

      Our huge pond rock removal job is not finished yet, results were absolutely horrible, the sludge under the rocks and it smelled even worse than it looks. We do have all the rocks out, what a huge difference in size. Cleaning liner is what's taking forever because the rocks and muck stained the liner so bad that it's taking multiple washings and brush scrubings to bring it back to a black. The advice we received before we started was not to power wash the algae because we'd be starting over like a new pond, well there was no algae anywhere after the rocks were removed so our nice neighbor felt sorry for us in the heat yesterday watching us trying to clean and offered his power washer which is working great on the stains. Now here are my real concerns, the fish seem to be doing pretty good, tests are good today, did a water change yesterday, will again today. Fed them a few pellets and fresh lettuce from our garden last night, they were so hungry. Are they going to be OK for another possible 36 hours as long as I do water changes and feed sparingly? They're in shade, water is 74 degrees. Our big problem is the media filter that we placed in a large garbage barrel filled with pond water on Sat. morning, it's beginning to smell not so good, have it covered with a lid smaller then can so there is air getting in there but it's cover with baby snails all over it and leaches. I know I've read that little red worms are a good sign on filter media but LEACHES, yuk won't they get on the fish? Should I buy a new Savio ribbon bio media or treat the one we have (only 4 months old) with something to kill all the snails and leaches? I know it will also kill the good stuff but we're just about beginning from scratch anyway and I can't bare to bring those snails back in after getting rid of thousands by removing the rocks, they multiple so quickly. Will the fish be able to go into the pond as soon as we start filling it up in less than two days, I have all the stuff we need to treat it, de-chlor, Microbelift-PL Stresscoat and salt if needed. I would make sure the water temp was within a few degrees, one reason why I'm keeping them so shaded so they remain in cooler water closer to the hose water temp. The pond is going to hold so much more water, my husbands thinking maybe 600 gallons, can't wait. What do we do about the snails leaches and media filter?? Looking for quick help incase I need to go purchase new stuff for start up. THANKS tons in advance!
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      Last edited by beckesj; 08-13-2007 at 12:11 PM.
      Steve


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      looks like you have enough liner to fold it back and dig another foot deeper! Good time to do it. As far as the media is concerned it is going anerobic (sp?) It needs some air and movement, can you put an airstone in the bottom of the barrel you have it in?
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    3. #3
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      When you do refill the pond, let it set for a day or two to bring the temp up before you add the fish. The water from the hose will be much colder than what they are in now. It will also give you a chance to look for leaks which can happen with all that rock removal. (I wouldn't worry about the stain removal too much as the liner will be covered in a layer of algae within a month.) Back to the fish: 600 gallons isn't enough for koi and the pond I see in the pic is very shallow which will put even goldfish at risk for predators and lethal temperature swings. As Noluck says: go deeper.

    4. #4
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      Do you have another container you can switch the media to? Fill it with fresh water, DECHLOR and add the media. It will be in fresh water. It is also pretty important to add an airstone or a pump to recirculate the water so it doesn't just sit there and go stagnant.

      As far as the red worms and leeches are concerned, no biggie: the leeches are more than likely the vegetation kind, no threat to your fish. And the snails? Good luck getting rid of them ; if you find a way to do it, please let the rest of us know.

      Not to rub it in, but now you know why most of us are so "down" on rocks: they may look pretty (there's no arguing that point), but they sure aren't good for the fish.

      I'm with the others: I think I'd take the opportunity to get rid of the plant shelves; even if you don't dig deeper, it will add hundreds of gallons to the pond. You need to make sure that you don't dig deeper than the liner can handle, because that would really be a bummer. The only way to rectify that problem would be to fill some of the depth back in.

      I know your backs are killing you, and it's a royal pain in the rump ... but your fish will thank you for this.



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    5. #5
      beckesj is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noluck View Post
      looks like you have enough liner to fold it back and dig another foot deeper! Good time to do it. As far as the media is concerned it is going anerobic (sp?) It needs some air and movement, can you put an airstone in the bottom of the barrel you have it in?
      Yes, I have one extra air valve not being used for the fish. So you don't think i need to buy new and start over? What about the snails and leaches, any advice??
      Steve


    6. #6
      beckesj is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by FishOCD View Post
      When you do refill the pond, let it set for a day or two to bring the temp up before you add the fish. The water from the hose will be much colder than what they are in now. It will also give you a chance to look for leaks which can happen with all that rock removal. (I wouldn't worry about the stain removal too much as the liner will be covered in a layer of algae within a month.) Back to the fish: 600 gallons isn't enough for koi and the pond I see in the pic is very shallow which will put even goldfish at risk for predators and lethal temperature swings. As Noluck says: go deeper.
      What I should have said was we believe we're going to gain another 600 additional gallons added to the 2500 we already had. So the pond may be atleast 3000 when we refill.
      Steve


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      I would still try to remove the shelves, =more water + less chance of predator's
      Watch your thoughts; they become words.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noluck View Post
      I would still try to remove the shelves, =more water + less chance of predator's
      Do you want me to remain married??????
      Steve


    9. #9
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      I am going to suggest that you use copper sulfate on the strapping. Copper will kill all inverts and parasites. Including the good ones. A plus though, is that if you bring the copper levels up slowly in the container your soaking the strapping in, you won’t loose ALL the good bacteria. It will go dormant and try to protect it’s self. You will still cycle as normal but the levels of the ammonia and nitrite should not be as high as they would be if you were going to be using all brand new stuff. I am giving you a web site to peak at. Look at pages 12 and 13. After the copper treatment rinse the media well with fresh water. http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/e...0Parasites.pdf
      If your really worried about a cycle use Fritzyme #7. There is not another product on the market with the effectiveness as this one. The fritzyme for ponds is just diluted in water, don’t bother with it. It cost more to ship. http://www.fritzpet.com/fritzzyme7_main.html
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    10. #10
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      Why treat the springflo with copper? I thought copper was toxic to fish!
      GloriaL
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    11. #11
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      It can be!!!!!!!!!!!yes. But treating the media is where the snails and Leeches will be left in a nice dark area to thrive. I am suggesting only treating the media and not the fish. Once the pond is re-filled any remaining leeches will not survive probably because the water will be to nice and clean. The snails though will need to be killed where they can be gotten to. If you want them all gone.
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    12. #12
      beckesj is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ageraldi View Post
      It can be!!!!!!!!!!!yes. But treating the media is where the snails and Leeches will be left in a nice dark area to thrive. I am suggesting only treating the media and not the fish. Once the pond is re-filled any remaining leeches will not survive probably because the water will be to nice and clean. The snails though will need to be killed where they can be gotten to. If you want them all gone.
      Thanks, I want them gone and now with the media out is my best chance to get rid of them without harming the fish. I'll try and get a hold of one of those treatments pronto. Thanks again for your advice!
      Steve


    13. #13
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      If your going to order the Fritzyme....Don't bother with the copper. Just use bleach. As a matter of fact if your going to oder the fritzyme....power wash anything and bleach what you want. The fritzyme formula is STRONG Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter nitrifying bacteria. It can handle bio loads with in hours. Still monitor your water. But rest assured with this stuff.
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    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by beckesj View Post
      Do you want me to remain married??????
      yeah many people don't realize not having shelves can be dangerous for us humans or pets. An adult or child falling into 6ft or 8ft of water with nothing but a straight sided pond could be deadly.

    15. #15
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      I don't know where ageraldi is coming from with this advice, but I would be VERY leery of adding anything with copper. I would be even more leery of nuking your bio filters. Your fish need whatever bio filtration they can get while in their temp tanks. DON'T go killing it now. Stop feeding the fish - they won't starve. Put air in the filter tank and circulate the holding tank water. You could kill all the snails in the media and I bet you will still have them back again from the pond. The fish will eat them so not that big a deal unless they start clogging the pumps. We can nuke them later.

      While you are going thru all this trouble and pain to remove the rocks you might as well dig out the plant shelves. You have enough liner. It's not cemented in place. No shelves means no roosts for herons and other preditors and more water. The fish will get hung up in that shallow water when they are bigger. I can't encourage you enough to do it now while you're at it.
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      Luck's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by jeffcopeland View Post
      yeah many people don't realize not having shelves can be dangerous for us humans or pets. An adult or child falling into 6ft or 8ft of water with nothing but a straight sided pond could be deadly.
      very true, but we are talking about pond that'll be what looks like less than 3 feet deep
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      I agree with Joey S. Do not use “nuke” anything that is still being used on or with your fish! I am under the impression that the fish are in QT and not on any of the system or system components of the pond. My advise should not be used if the fish will come in contact with anything I have suggested. Thus is why I suggested rinsing everything after. Nothing I have suggested is treatment for fish!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by Joey S View Post
      I don't know where ageraldi is coming from with this advice, but I would be VERY leery of adding anything with copper. I would be even more leery of nuking your bio filters. Your fish need whatever bio filtration they can get while in their temp tanks. DON'T go killing it now. Stop feeding the fish - they won't starve. Put air in the filter tank and circulate the holding tank water. You could kill all the snails in the media and I bet you will still have them back again from the pond. The fish will eat them so not that big a deal unless they start clogging the pumps. We can nuke them later.

      While you are going thru all this trouble and pain to remove the rocks you might as well dig out the plant shelves. You have enough liner. It's not cemented in place. No shelves means no roosts for herons and other preditors and more water. The fish will get hung up in that shallow water when they are bigger. I can't encourage you enough to do it now while you're at it.
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    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by Noluck View Post
      I would still try to remove the shelves, =more water + less chance of predator's
      I second that!!
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    19. #19
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      Thanks for clarifying, ageraldi! I think the bio media/filters have been shifted to the temp holding tank. Considering that the pond volume will increase after the rocks are out, you might want to consider buying more bio media and seeding it in the holding tank. Then you will have more available for the pond after the redo.
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      I would rather be questioned and made to clarify than to be wrong and harm someone’s fish.

      Quote Originally Posted by Joey S View Post
      Thanks for clarifying, ageraldi! I think the bio media/filters have been shifted to the temp holding tank. Considering that the pond volume will increase after the rocks are out, you might want to consider buying more bio media and seeding it in the holding tank. Then you will have more available for the pond after the redo.
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