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    Thread: Showa Growout Results!

    1. #21
      Rita in Il's Avatar
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      Congrats to all!
      Rita

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ronin-Koi
      How is your system preventing nitrate buildup? The PP and/or shower filter doesn't eliminate nitrates, right?
      Not Roddy, but the shower filter keeps the nitrates down.
      Dan
      What you see is much less a matter of what you're looking at than where you're looking from.

      I don't know much, but there's quite a bit that I choose to believe.

    3. #23
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
      Roddy Conrad is offline The Koiphen Chemist
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ronin-Koi
      Wow, what fine examples of Lotuslandkoifarm.com showa! Roddy and Brady should be proud. Roddy, to help me understand your thinking, by using the PP to eliminate the DOCs regularly, is this equivalent to doing massive (85%) water changes on a weekly basis? How is your system preventing nitrate buildup? The PP and/or shower filter doesn't eliminate nitrates, right?

      Also, What did you feed them, how much, and how often?
      The PP treatment is equivalent to doing a massive water change as you suggest.

      Nitrates are kept extremely low by the shower filter as said above.

      The feed rate was not particularly high, and I did not use an automatic feeder. All we did was throw a handful of koi pellets in the tank anytime we saw there were no pellets floating, probably 6 to 8 times a day.

      The coloration was helped by keeping the GH in the right range.

      Again, I appreciate all the kind remarks, and the conclusion of the growout contest coming together.
      Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great! Finished a Master’s degree in Environmental Science Dec 14, 2020, to round out my PhD in chemistry in 1967.

    4. #24
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      Congratulations to all

    5. #25
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      Wow...beautiful Showa.....congrats!

    6. #26
      mike pfeffer is offline Senior Member
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      It is interesting how the sumi came up in the finnage. Makes one wonder how breeders can correctly identify customer koi that get harvested out of the mud ponds.

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by mike pfeffer
      It is interesting how the sumi came up in the finnage. Makes one wonder how breeders can correctly identify customer koi that get harvested out of the mud ponds.
      I have three tosai Showa that Fujio San just put back into one of his mud ponds. He only put 49 koi in that pond. If one of the koi changes so much that it can not be identified by the photo I'd expect the process of elimination would determine which one it was.
      Gene




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    8. #28
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      Roddy, do I understand correctly about using PP (I know next to nothing) ........

      Do you only need to adjust your water parameters once? kH and gH stay put since you are not actually doing water changes using new water, you are using water that is pre-treated?

      I have very low kH and gH but dont think it is worth chasing since I am using my creek for a flow through and any work I would do would be constantly diluted.

      Sorry, I know the above is not worded well.

    9. #29
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      For the long term keepers there is probably nothing you can do in your case since you are on creek feed. If you had fish you wanted to condition for show you could move them into closed system (even keep a show tank or pool on hand for this), and use higher GH water and color feeds to make them pop. This can certainly hurt them long term but not many fish are going to complete as adults anyways.

    10. #30
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      Congrats to Roddy and Chris!

    11. #31
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      Wow! Way to go Roddy and Congrats Brady! That Showa speaks volumns on what you're doing.

    12. #32
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      Cograts Roddy! You have shown what can be expected out of great stock from Brady. Obviously, Brady has a great breeding program going and the talent to spot good prospects at an early age. Keep up the great work gentlemen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    13. #33
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by luke-gr
      Roddy, do I understand correctly about using PP (I know next to nothing) ........

      Do you only need to adjust your water parameters once? kH and gH stay put since you are not actually doing water changes using new water, you are using water that is pre-treated?

      I have very low kH and gH but dont think it is worth chasing since I am using my creek for a flow through and any work I would do would be constantly diluted.

      Sorry, I know the above is not worded well.
      KH is used by the biofilter, but since I intentionally run the KH in the 300 to 600 ppm range with baking soda, the alkalinity stays high.

      GH is also slowly used up as calcium precipitates to avoid high pH swings, but certainly it is not used up at a high rate, and the recovered water with PP is going to be a lot richer in hardness than my source tap water, which has no detectable hardness.

      I agree with the response above that if you are using a flow through system from creek water, it is pointless to attempt to adjust water parameters with any chemical additions.

      The PP treatments I use have historically been the subject of many discussions, some of the discussion was even occasionally pleasant and entertaining. That process requires constant judgement decisions about how to do it, however, so it is not an easy "cookbook recipe".
      Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great! Finished a Master’s degree in Environmental Science Dec 14, 2020, to round out my PhD in chemistry in 1967.

    14. #34
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by mike pfeffer
      It is interesting how the sumi came up in the finnage. Makes one wonder how breeders can correctly identify customer koi that get harvested out of the mud ponds.
      We had to take pictures every few weeks to make sure we kept track of which koi was which. Please be aware that my very high KH, meaning running it always in the 200 ppm to 600 ppm range, favors wonderful development of deep sumi. So the same koi probably would not have as much sumi in a different pond, and certainly the same fish had lots less sumi in Brady's farm ponds where we picked up the koi in late February, 2005.

      Without keeping track of these koi every few weeks, it would have been relatively difficult to identify them precisely for the growout contest.

      All I am trying to say is the koi really did change coloration a lot, and the change was intentional, I like my showa with plenty of deep sumi.

      Please notice the high KH and mid range GH also gave good beni development, and the extremely low nitrates gave excellent quality to the white areas on the showa (and all the other fish in the same water).
      Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi. Have developed a package of age regression technology to become younger instead of older. Doing great! Finished a Master’s degree in Environmental Science Dec 14, 2020, to round out my PhD in chemistry in 1967.

    15. #35
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      Nice finish. Must have more showas that got crossed. The first two pictures are the same fish. But that last two are not. Korekome can not change like that and Hi can not migrate like that. sumi can pop rom no where but not Hi. Look how the first Hi is the same just sumi appeared at nice places. The econd pair is way too off.

    16. #36
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      The major change seen in the "Best Showa" pictures is uncommon; but Sumi is supposed to be a bit unpredictable. There’re a lot of Sumi changes in the “Best Growth” Showa pictures also. Particularly, the notorious Motoguro and the Sumi coming up from the abdomen—Yama-moyo—at the koi’s right side developing from where there was no sign of it in the picture taken seven months before. But then again, sumi can be unstable in Showa.

      It’s the fast changes in the Hi-moyo of the two "Most Growth Showa" pictures that are too much. The Hi covering the head down to the lips in the first picture, receded back to the eye-line in a Kutsubera pattern after seven months. The Hi at the shoulder’s right grew down from the back to reach the middle line; the Hi at its left side moved upwards. The two steps, which are separated in the first picture turned into a continuous pattern. The first Hi step bridged to the second one at an area where the separation was larger. The Hi spot grew to reach past the dorsal fin’s start. The small group of scales that form a diffuse Hi spot moved to another place and changed form. A high quality Showa has a stable Hi and a more stable and predictable Sumi.
      Could these be the pictures of two different koi?

      ks
      Last edited by Koi Story; 06-15-2006 at 08:09 PM.
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    17. #37
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      Sorry, the picture didn't upload file too large.

      ks
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by Koi Story; 06-15-2006 at 08:50 PM.
      hatsukoi
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    18. #38
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      Yes two different koi for second one. I hope awards not based on before and after. No one with any water can make a rabbit come out of a hat.

    19. #39
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      All fish in contest were judged by single ending picture and given measured size for each fish. I threw the other pics together just for this thread but did so quickly and may have mixed them up.

    20. #40
      woodyaht is offline KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid
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      Congratz Roddy!

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