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  • Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345
    Results 81 to 99 of 99

    Thread: Pond Coatings, Sealers, and Liner Options

    1. #81
      woodyaht is offline KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mark_NoVA
      Gotta couple of questions that I'm not clear on:
      Is fiberglass a viable option in the U.S.? From what I've read, it is not advisable to DIY fiberglass; however, we don't have anyone in the U.S. doing it for ponds, do we? (And why is that, I wonder? I bet some of the polyurea installers would be installing fiberglass if they thought it was a better option.)
      This is rather basic, but I don't know the "why": why are swimming-pool-type finishes not used? They obviously hold water, but when people convert pools to ponds, they seem to put on a different liner. Is the surface bad for koi?

      I guess I missed this thread somehow

      My pond is fiberglass, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Nothing better in my eyes. As stated earlier most of the stuff available for ponds are just coatings. They don't have much strength. But when your coating a structure like block walls, and such there isn't much of a need for strength. There is only 1/8" of fiberglass in the bottom of my pond (directly to the dirt) and on the walls. The walls of my pond were formed with 1/4" cement board. so my walls over-all are about 3/8" thick. There's not much else available that can compare to that and still have the strength that glass does. My pond, from start of digging to tossing fish in was a little over 2 weeks, and most of one of the weeks was rain. Took me a while to do the finsih stone work, but all in all it is a very fast and efficient product. Another nice thing, is if I wanted to double the size of my pond, I could digg out where I wanted, cut out the end wall, and start glassing again, and in a week or so, have a pond twice my original size. not much else will let you do that with that kind of speed.

      Depending on the job, fiberglass is not that expsensive, my price to glass a pond is in the same ball park as polyurea.
      I used to do tons of fiberglass fabrication, and all my work is hand layed fiberglass, no chopper gun here, that's why I can get away with only 1/8" of glass in my pond, it's a combination of using the correct materials and hand laying it.

    2. #82
      vipldy's Avatar
      vipldy is offline The Fish Whisperer
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      Quote Originally Posted by woodyaht
      I guess I missed this thread somehow

      My pond is fiberglass, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Nothing better in my eyes. As stated earlier most of the stuff available for ponds are just coatings. They don't have much strength. But when your coating a structure like block walls, and such there isn't much of a need for strength. There is only 1/8" of fiberglass in the bottom of my pond (directly to the dirt) and on the walls. The walls of my pond were formed with 1/4" cement board. so my walls over-all are about 3/8" thick. There's not much else available that can compare to that and still have the strength that glass does. My pond, from start of digging to tossing fish in was a little over 2 weeks, and most of one of the weeks was rain. Took me a while to do the finsih stone work, but all in all it is a very fast and efficient product. Another nice thing, is if I wanted to double the size of my pond, I could digg out where I wanted, cut out the end wall, and start glassing again, and in a week or so, have a pond twice my original size. not much else will let you do that with that kind of speed.

      Depending on the job, fiberglass is not that expsensive, my price to glass a pond is in the same ball park as polyurea.
      I used to do tons of fiberglass fabrication, and all my work is hand layed fiberglass, no chopper gun here, that's why I can get away with only 1/8" of glass in my pond, it's a combination of using the correct materials and hand laying it.
      Sounds good but not all people feel polyurea is inexpensive I was quoted something like $6000.00 for polyurea and its just not in the budget

      Marie
      Marie

      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today Ruby's Keeper


    3. #83
      Ryan S.'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ronin-Koi
      Hecht is included in the list of sealer and lining options way back in post #1 which I will try to update at some point? Here is part of what is said in that post above:

      " Pros: advertised qualities sound great.

      Cons: reports on Koiphen indicate quite a few users have experienced pealing of the coating after a year or two of use. Undetermined if proper application procedures were used. Another user reported no problems after several years.

      Here is a recent thread on Hecht:
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24716 "

      Both Stephen and Savannah indicate issues with the coating.

      - Wayne, will not be using it.

      In fairness Hecht brand, only the installation methods that were done correctly should be considered. If you skip the primer and it peels... well thats kinda expected.

      I see pools all over the place with paints and sealers that hold up fine, not sure why such elaborate and expensive coatings are needed for ponds that are not required for pools?
      Last edited by Ryan S.; 07-07-2006 at 01:59 PM.

    4. #84
      Eric Marsh's Avatar
      Eric Marsh is offline Polyurea Spray Guy
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      Quote Originally Posted by PondArmor
      Sorry Eric, I can only generalize here. Those are the rules of the forum and the courtesies I follow regarding advertising in general. All of that information (including pictures) can either be collected from our web site or you can call me and we can speak direct.

      Butch
      Personally I don't think that providing informational material is necessarly advertising. It can be benifical to all because an informed consumer is a wise consumer. I'm just curious because I like to know what other people are doing. There are a variety of options out there and it's good to be familier with them.

    5. #85
      PondArmor is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Eric Marsh
      Personally I don't think that providing informational material is necessarly advertising. It can be benifical to all because an informed consumer is a wise consumer. I'm just curious because I like to know what other people are doing. There are a variety of options out there and it's good to be familier with them.
      Eric, really, I am not sure why you find it necessary to grind me on this point. I posted my web address and that's where I house all of my information. As I said before, it's only a click away and just for added measure I don't charge anyone to visit it so the information is technically shared. Go click on the link above and read to your hearts content.

      Butch

    6. #86
      Eric Marsh's Avatar
      Eric Marsh is offline Polyurea Spray Guy
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      Quote Originally Posted by PondArmor
      Eric, really, I am not sure why you find it necessary to grind me on this point. I posted my web address and that's where I house all of my information. As I said before, it's only a click away and just for added measure I don't charge anyone to visit it so the information is technically shared. Go click on the link above and read to your hearts content.

      Butch
      I wasn't really trying to grind you - just expressing my opinion.

    7. #87
      vipldy's Avatar
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      Thank you Justin

      Marie
      Last edited by vipldy; 07-14-2006 at 12:16 PM.
      Marie

      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today Ruby's Keeper


    8. #88
      Rich L is offline Senior Member
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      I've seen several fiberglass ponds out here. Most of them were installed with a chopper gun. Only problem I saw with one was clay dirt sagging behind a 14’ X 6’ vertical wall over about 8 years. Swimming pool manufacturers avoid that by laying a piece of 2 or 3” ABS and covering that with fiberglass to act as a girder along large flat components. Works fine and the cost of installation is higher than polyurea if you want good structual.

      One hobbyist applied fiberglass over cement block. It leaked at first but the leaking stopped when he applied a second coat of fiberglass. Don’t know what it cost him.

    9. #89
      woodyaht is offline KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rich L
      I've seen several fiberglass ponds out here. Most of them were installed with a chopper gun. Only problem I saw with one was clay dirt sagging behind a 14’ X 6’ vertical wall over about 8 years. Swimming pool manufacturers avoid that by laying a piece of 2 or 3” ABS and covering that with fiberglass to act as a girder along large flat components. Works fine and the cost of installation is higher than polyurea if you want good structual.

      One hobbyist applied fiberglass over cement block. It leaked at first but the leaking stopped when he applied a second coat of fiberglass. Don’t know what it cost him.

      A properly layed fiberglass lay up will not leak, and shouldnn't sag. The biggest mistake most people make is not using enough fiberglass, as well as the wrong cloth. There is many types of cloth available, and very few people want to fork out the money for the proper cloth when doing DIY.
      A chopper gun lay up should have at least 1/4" of thickness if the substrate it's being applied to is less than bullet proof. Using the proper cloth and hand laying it up, you can get away with about half that thickness on a marginal substrate.
      As far as costs. for me to glass a pond by hand for a prospective customer, it is right in the same ballpark as polyurea, within $1-2 a Sq Ft.

    10. #90
      midnight is offline Senior Member
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      gunite pre coating

      Hello Everyone, New member and invaluable site as I contemplate digging out my 4000 gallon liner pond and installing a 10,000+ gunite pond. My question is about the surfacing on the gunite prior to applying some type of sealer. Does the gunite have to be plastered with anything or can it be just the gunnite, after curing? I'm getting quotes from "gunite contractors" and it's one of their questions. thanks a lot and glad to be a member here-just invaluable information. Glenn

    11. #91
      PondArmor is offline Member
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      Hi Midnight,
      Gunnite applications are usually pretty rough. I have known some people to actually communicate with the people shooting the gunnite on and make them understand that the smoother the surface, the better and they have accomplished a pretty good surface. If not, a coating like Pond Shield will still bond to the surface but you might consider spraying the epoxy on. Squeegeeing the epoxy over an uneven surface will tend to use up material. At least with spraying it you can control the amount you lay down over areas like that.

      If you are considering a rendering of concrete over the gunnite to smooth it out, you have to make sure that a very good bonding agent is used. I have consulted on many jobs where the rendering have either no bonding agent or a very poor one and the rendering has come loose from the wall. You can tell by tapping on it as there is a hollow sound behind it. Those areas have to be repaired prior to putting your coating on. Pond Shield for instance, has a tensile bond strength that exceeds the internal strength of the concrete, so the bond to the rendering would be great. However, if the rendering falls off, the coating will go with it.

      If you want to find the best bonding agents, you can talk to local concrete comapnies, tile companies and even professional plasterers. Any of these people will know what works best in a situation like yours. If you're curious about our coatings, takle a peek at them at www.pondarmor.com
      Butch

    12. #92
      midnight is offline Senior Member
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      thanks, butch

      thanks for all the advice, Butch. I'm still at the overwhelmed place but each piece of information I collect and add it to what I know keeps dropping it all into place--long way to go, but I'll get there. Glenn

    13. #93
      vipldy's Avatar
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      Please people post your coating experience here and let's get this going again

      Marie
      Marie

      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today Ruby's Keeper


    14. #94
      jadigger's Avatar
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      well

      somebody doing anything new?
      Cautum intransit devocoare cavusim...
      Look out for the hole!!!
      Jerry.~.




      Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo - I'll have a pizza with everything on it


    15. #95
      vipldy's Avatar
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      We ended up doing Polyurea and love it!

      Marie
      Marie

      Have You Hugged Your Koi Today Ruby's Keeper


    16. #96
      drrich2 is offline Senior Member
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      Are any of the spray on liners appropriate to use on a big, bare hole (basically creating your own custom pre-formed pond)?

      Richard.

    17. #97
      Landon90's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by JanetMermaid View Post
      Wayne, Nice job. Here's a table I did for a presentation. It doesn't include all of the products you cover, but it does compare the most popular:

      Im not sure about spray on ?polyura? but ive heard people can do it themselves possibly more of a paint brush thing though...and a friend and i made a concrete pond its owner installable

    18. #98
      Eric Marsh's Avatar
      Eric Marsh is offline Polyurea Spray Guy
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      Quote Originally Posted by midnight View Post
      Hello Everyone, New member and invaluable site as I contemplate digging out my 4000 gallon liner pond and installing a 10,000+ gunite pond. My question is about the surfacing on the gunite prior to applying some type of sealer. Does the gunite have to be plastered with anything or can it be just the gunnite, after curing? I'm getting quotes from "gunite contractors" and it's one of their questions. thanks a lot and glad to be a member here-just invaluable information. Glenn
      Looks like this response is way out of date, but I came across the question and thought I'm post a response.

      Most gunite contractors deliberately leave the finish rough so that the pool plaster will have a good bond. This is a real problem to anyone trying to apply a spray or roll on coating. If you can get the gunite people to give a smooth surface that is very helpful. Otherwise there are two options with polyurea. One is to apply a material to the gunite, such as thinset, mortar or pool plaster. The liner can then be applied to it. Another approach is to glue geotextile cloth to the gunite with polyurea and then coat the geotextile. This is a good solution if the pond is not too "swoopy", i.e. has clean square edges. In a pond with lots of rounded edges it can be difficult to get the geotextile to lay flat.

    19. #99
      Eric Marsh's Avatar
      Eric Marsh is offline Polyurea Spray Guy
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      Quote Originally Posted by Landon90 View Post
      Im not sure about spray on ?polyura? but ive heard people can do it themselves possibly more of a paint brush thing though...and a friend and i made a concrete pond its owner installable
      I'd be pretty skeptical about any polyurea system that is not applied by a professional. While a think coat may seal, it really takes a thick coat to get the good physical strength that polyurea can deliver.

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