This one will be very educational and interesting

[Orlando]

First a little background on the history of this thread, the female oyagoi that took part is an F1 born here in my backyard and her parents were a kohaku female from Tamaura koi farm in Japan and her male parent was a male Sanke from Sakai FF in Hiroshima, the male oyagoi is a Ginrin Ochiba Shigure from Ikarashi that's all I can give you on him. So the journey begins I really enjoy this hobby and it gives me energy to move forward so as I plan future breeding I gave my F1 kohaku female and my Ginrin Ochiba a thought. Will it work, what could be the outcome and that's when the alarm went off. Let's find some koiphen members that might be willing to participate in an experiment and two came to mind so I approached them back in late 2024 and asked them if they would be interested in participating. I've mentioned on a different thread that something was coming down the pipe. About a week ago 8 fry were shipped to the state of VA and 8 to OK. This isn't a grow out contest, am just curious to see how they will develop in different environments, I suspect this will be an interesting thread since it involves fry from the same spawn in different environments. The recipients of these fry will chime in when they are ready. In the meantime here are the fry that were selected for this experiment, enjoy. I would like to hear their opinions on my shipping practices and on the bag's that were utilized, get ready for a great thread to evolve...

[Matt24]

... I would like to hear their opinions on my shipping practices and on the bag's that were utilized ....

Thanks Orlando. The shipment from Florida to Oklahoma came via USPS, which took a couple of days. I had planned to just let the mail truck deliver them on the regular mail route. But I woke up early and checked on a potential spawn. Then I checked the tracking and saw that the package had gotten as far as the local post office. I knew from receiving live chicks by mail, that you can pick them up at the back door, (and if your phone number is on the box, they will call you). So I drove over and picked them up at 7 am after 46 hours in transit. There were two bags with four 1" - 1.25" koi in each filled with water, no air or oxygen, in the small 8" x 6" x 4.5" box (~3.5 lb). The koi were swimming well with plenty of energy. So I think they would have been fine on the truck for a few extra hours, especially since the weather was neither hot nor cold. The bags are thin and 7" x 12" when laid flat. Perhaps it would help gas exchange through the bags if the box had air holes, but it was not necessary, and there would have been increased puncture risk.

More about the koi soon ...

[spkennyva]

The 8 babies that Orlando sent me arrived alive and well at 1:44 PM on Fri, May 16. I was a bit concerned because the ambient temp was in the low 90s, and I wasn’t sure how well they would be treated along their delivery route, but my faith in the USPS remains intact. All are well and looking good!! The babies took food almost immediately, which suggests that the travel experience was not too stressful. These Kordon bags seem to really work well.

Thanks again Orlando!!

[Matt24]

Here are the 8 just after arrival. One photo of the whole group and a couple a little more zoomed in with each.

Looks like 3 dark ones in the lower left of the first photo have reticulated scales (the net-like scale pattern), and the two left-most are ginrin. The yellow one with sumi on the head also seems to have something going on with the scales, maybe ginrin.

They are now in a 150 gallon tub filled to about 100 gallons with a pump creating a flow-through to and from my little pond.

[Matt24]

First a little background on the history of this thread, the female oyagoi that took part is an F1 born here in my backyard and her parents were a kohaku female from Tamaura koi farm in Japan and her male parent was a male Sanke from Sakai FF in Hiroshima, the male oyagoi is a Ginrin Ochiba Shigure from Ikarashi that's all I can give you on him. ...

Post #601 here https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...s-ready/page31 shows the two parents in the spawning tub in mid March. Orlando may have closer photos of them somewhere on that thread. I recall seeing the male ginrin ochiba, really nice!

[Matt24]

These 8 have been getting crumbles of adult pellets and a little of the seafood paste that I blend and freeze (~75% seafood like canned tuna, salmon, mackerel, sardines, or herring, and ~25% veggies like pumpkin, peas, or veg-all). I don't know how much of which they are eating, but they are growing, around 1.25" to 1.75".

Even though some clearly have body confirmation issues, I'm more focused on learning from the development of the other characteristics that are unique to this interesting crossing. I've read that pros have crossed kohaku with ochiba to improve the ochiba patterns and give them more of a dorsal arrangement rather than a lateral or scattered pattern. But I've never seen photos or even descriptions of the development.

The smallest dark one has gotten big enough that I can see reticulation of the scales like the other dark ones. Two of the dark ones have at least some ochiba pattern visible, and the other two seem solid brown as best I can tell.

The light ones don't show as much pattern, though a couple seem to have a little bit of white. On some of the light ones, I wonder if I am seem a little bit of brown shading, for example on the one with the black mark on the head. So I wonder if some will eventually have an in-between color.

In the photos from two weeks ago, it is clear that two of the dark ones and perhaps one of the light ones are ginrin. But for some reason, even in the sun, ginrin is hard to see in these newer pictures. (Probably turning up your screen brightness will help in viewing these photos.) These pictures below are from 6/1, after a fortnight in Oklahoma. Looking forward to what Orlando and Sean are seeing ...

[Matt24]

At this point, the dark ones seem like little versions of adult ochiba and chagoi. Their scale reticulation is visible. The patterns on the ochiba are visible (though they could shift some). Ginrin scales are visible on those that are ginrin. The colors look similar to those of adults. If I did not know better, I would not have guessed their mom is a kohaku.

As for the light ones, the development of appearance is slower. They are still yellow to orangish yellow, a long way from the red-orange color of adult kohaku. Their pattern formation (for the ones with patterns developing) has a long way to go. For now, they don't show signs of having an ochiba dad, except maybe for the one with the black mark on the head.