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  • Results 1 to 9 of 9

    Thread: VERY large leak under concrete stream -- can't feel liner -- only dirt

    1. #1
      Lori WG's Avatar
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      Unhappy VERY large leak under concrete stream -- can't feel liner -- only dirt

      Hi there.

      So, I did not build this pond. I have a 25 year old, 20,000 gallon concrete pond with a liner -- well, a liner under the large 15,000 part of the pond.

      The part with the VERY large leak is a stream that connects an upper pond with the large lower pond. I was cleaning it, and I noticed that the water was going into this leak instead of the bottom pond! Once the algae was removed, I found a 20 inch long by 1.5 inch wide crack. I can put my hand in it! My BIG concern is that I cannot feel a liner -- only some dirt -- but most of what I feel is just empty space. If I put water in it, it just disappears.

      I REALLY do not want to redo the entire pond. Strangely, this crack is by far the largest crack the pond has. The upper ponds are "formal" ponds with tiles, wall fountains, and etc. with no cracks, and the lower, largest pond has concrete with some cracks, but it is clear there is a stable liner under it.

      I have researched the web and our forum here for some time, and nothing talks about what to do when you cannot feel where the space ends under the leak.

      What can I do to repair it?

      Thank you!

      Lori
      Lori WG

      “If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.” ~ 14th Dalai Lama

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    2. #2
      Noahsnana's Avatar
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      Can't you do a cement patch in the stream area with the crack....
      Maybe RichToyBox will have an answer.
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    3. #3
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      VERY large leak under concrete stream

      Quote Originally Posted by Noahsnana View Post
      Can't you do a cement patch in the stream area with the crack....
      Maybe RichToyBox will have an answer.

      From what I can tell, the hole seems to go from the stream area down the edge of the large pond. There are a couple of other "medium" size cracks in the main lower pond directly below the stream area with the crack where I can hear a "hollow" sound when I chiseled them out to make them a bit bigger which seems to indicate that the hole goes down the edge of the large pond. Thus, the "hole" area sounds as though it extends about 3 feet across and goes the edge of the bottom pond about five feet. The bottom of the pond there sounds solid -- to be clear, the bottom pond is nine feet deep in that area. However, exactly how large that hole is, I have no idea.

      So, do people actually fill that entire area with concrete? I am not opposed to it. I just want to be clear what to do.

      Is there a way to figure out how large the hole is without breaking out a lot of concrete?

      Also --if it is possible to fix this with concrete, what type? (I am using QUIKRETE Hydraulic WaterStop for the cracks.)

      Thank you!
      Last edited by Lori WG; 1 Week Ago at 03:41 PM.
      Lori WG

      “If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.” ~ 14th Dalai Lama

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      Hi Lori,

      I don't pretend to be an expert on concrete. Having said that, if I got no input from others, I'd mostly fill the hole with gravel, say 1/2" or 3/8. Then tamp it down with a bar as best I could at the crack. I'd stop when it got up to about 6" from the top of the cement. then I'd add an inch of sand on top to get up to about 5" from the top of the concrete After that I'd patch it with concrete. So that you only have about 5" of concrete down. I'm assuming your existing concrete is a bit more than 5" thick. if thinner I'd put the fill in until it was just high enough to stop the wet concrete from running away.

      I'd also cut some groves across the crack, about 3" down and lay some 1/2 rebar strips in the groves before patching.

      I make that suggestion after watching my steps (with an upper landing) to the house get poured. They framed (cribbed) them in partially filled it in a similar manner before just putting just the top layer in concrete. This was done on two stair cases, one I admit did crack a bit, the other did not.

      For smaller cracks I'd mix my concrete thick and press it down as far as I could, trying to avoid it from going into the void underneath.

      Once dried for several days (or longer if you have the luxury), I'd put a sealer on it I'm not sure what that would be (not concrete sealer, but some kind of rubberized epoxy or the like)

      I'm sure pictures would help others give a more informed response.

      Good luck.
      Last edited by Myrlin; 1 Week Ago at 12:43 AM.

    5. #5
      Lori WG's Avatar
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      Thank you, Myrlin! I appreciate your advice! The only part there I am unsure about is the rebar. I have read that people do that, but for some reason, I cannot envision it. I wish there was a video demonstration somewhere!

      I though about posting pictures -- I normally do when asking a question -- but much of what I am saying is still my estimation as a result of the hollow sounds on the side of the large pond. I am afraid to break into the side of the pond -- or too close to it -- as I am a bit concerned about what would happen at this point.

      I just ordered a sewer camera so that I can see what is happening without breaking everything apart. Given that the pond is 25 years old, I just want to be careful.
      Lori WG

      “If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.” ~ 14th Dalai Lama

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      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Are you certain the leak is only from the connecting stream zone?

      What about laying a liner on top of the decomposing holey concrete? You could hide the liner with river pebble and rocks.

      Patching holes with concrete is relatively easy but making it watertight could be tricky. Even if the new concrete is dense and thick enough to be water resistant, the older concrete may not be anymore. So you would have to fill in the holes then seal all the concrete to be certain. You can buy pre-mix concrete. Just add water. Very convenient for smaller projects.

      Rebar is to prevent concrete getting pulled apart. Even chicken wire will be sufficient in this scenario. On very hot days and long continous concrete lengths, thermal expansion can pull concrete apart. As can earth subsidence or movement or moisture causing clays to swell.

      Have you discussed with a handyman or pond maintenance person? Its possibly a cheap repair.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lori WG View Post
      The only part there I am unsure about is the rebar. .
      As Aquaholic said to stop the crack from pulling it apart more. It just makes a stronger patch.

      The cut would make a trench would be across the crack. Then drop the rebar in the trench, then fill with concrete covering the rebar. It is kind of like a buried stitch. I'd try to make them extend past the crack edge at leat 2 inches. I'm not sure I'd go with chicken wire though (I'm not sure it is the same thing where I live as Aquaholic), but there is thicker mesh you could use, about the thickness of a wire coat hanger. (maybe use a cut up wire coat hanger?).

      I like the idea of then covering the entire stream with pond liner and back filling with rocks to en sure no leaking.

      Again, I'm no concrete expert, in fact I'm not a pond expert either, I just got into the hobby last year.

    9. #9
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      Thank you for the feedback! I just wanted to let you know that I did not disappear. I have had on and off rain here since I last wrote which has prevented me from working on the pond. As soon as the rain lets up, I will provide an update.
      Lori WG

      “If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.” ~ 14th Dalai Lama

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