Need Help

[dtimm822]

Recent problem that has flared up.

Have a 2300 Koi pond, concrete with a black acrylic lining, with two 18 inch koi for the last five months with no problems. Feeding well, pond ph 8.1 to 8.2, neg Ammonia, nitrites, Nitrates 5 ppm, KH 150-180. Water filtered 5000gallons/hr, bead filter, roughly 5-10 % water change weekly (chlorine and chloramine filter) with back washing filter twice a week. Had plants (water lettuce and hyacinths), but removed 6 weeks ago. Setting is as such. The water source for my pond was city water pH 9 or so. Used Clorine filter.

First, I noticed my pond pH slowly drift down to high 7's or so. Fish started to feed less well, but nothing else. Good color (Koaku and Shiro) and good activity.

Found my water source's ph fall to low 7's. Am calling the county water authority to see what's up.

4 days ago added three, 20 inch koi from a nearby Koi producer. They went thru a series of steps to treat for flukes, et al (by the koi farm). The first two days, transition went fine. Feeding not good. Yesterday I noticed one, a 21 inch beautiful Showa, occasionally swim, tilted 10-15 degrees to the left side. Also she would occasionally swim over my center air "bubbles" and arch her side to them, letting the bubbles caress her side She was the only one to do it. Feeding was poor.

Yesterday I noticed one of the original two koi was agitated. She with swim at a faster pace for a second or two, as if to avoid being caught.

This am I noticed both of the original koi had a brown's tint to their white scales, a little like the brown spot on you see on some Shiro utsuri tosai head.

The 3 new koi seem fine (other than the swimming pattern of one) and they seemed to be "gasping" a little. Appetite is still poor.

What gives ?? so I am..

1) replacing the water over the next 24 hours and adding a liitle baking soda, maybe 1/4 lb three times a day over the next 3 days. That pH change is puzzling. My KH is ok, but if that were true why would the ph be so low (for my pond.) ?? For only the original two koi to look bad, something was happening in the pond prior to introducing their new sisters. ???

I'm completely stopping the feedings. Maybe I was overfeeding over a long time and only now see the consequences.

?? Early infection ??

The other koi acting like they are gasping. The oxygenation is good, central air bubbles and great water filter turnover ??

Need advice and opinions. Bad time to have issues just after adding 3 new fish.

[coolwon]

Raise your KH in accordance with the KH instructions found in the Koi Calculator,top of the page, right hand side.

Add bi carb,as per the dosage amount recommended for the volume of your pond in time. Raise the pH gradually.

Consider you probably had a pH crash, brought on by your mains water supply being low down in the 7 pH.

Go by the grams dosage added for the water volume of your pond.

The pH will not go higher than +-8.3 pH by adding a little to much bicarb for your fish.

Which is a safe number for Koi.

[dtimm822]

The brown stain is identical to a shiro tosai's top of the head. Each scale has a central brown area, the rim of each scale is white. They do not coalesce.

[dtimm822]

Could it be fungal ??

[richtoybox]

If the pH has drifted down, I suspect the KH value is much lower than you have reported. You may need to get another KH test kit. If the KH is above 80ppm, then the pH should not drift morning to evening and should maintain a pH of close to 8.3. Check the pH early morning and late afternoon to see if there is a difference. You didn't state the time of testing but if it was late afternoon, the morning reading will be much lower. Always start with getting the water right before starting any treatments as treatments in less than ideal water conditions usually don't have excellent results.

[kdh]

Could be fungal. Gasping for air,darting, not eating are symptoms of possible ammonia issues. As well as ph fluctuations. Good pics would help. You can see if it is fungal if you get really close to one and look closely. It well appear fuzzy. Fungal issues saprolegnia for example usually only occur if the water quality is bad due to doc's or feeding off of dead tissue.

[coolwon]

Recent problem that has flared up.

Have a 2300 Koi pond, concrete with a black acrylic lining, with two 18 inch koi for the last five months with no problems. Feeding well, pond ph 8.1 to 8.2, neg Ammonia, nitrites, Nitrates 5 ppm, KH 150-180. Water filtered 5000gallons/hr, bead filter, roughly 5-10 % water change weekly (chlorine and chloramine filter) with back washing filter twice a week. Had plants (water lettuce and hyacinths), but removed 6 weeks ago. Setting is as such. The water source for my pond was city water pH 9 or so. Used Clorine filter.

First, I noticed my pond pH slowly drift down to high 7's or so. Fish started to feed less well, but nothing else. Good color (Koaku and Shiro) and good activity.

Found my water source's ph fall to low 7's. Am calling the county water authority to see what's up.

4 days ago added three, 20 inch koi from a nearby Koi producer. They went thru a series of steps to treat for flukes, et al (by the koi farm). The first two days, transition went fine. Feeding not good. Yesterday I noticed one, a 21 inch beautiful Showa, occasionally swim, tilted 10-15 degrees to the left side. Also she would occasionally swim over my center air "bubbles" and arch her side to them, letting the bubbles caress her side She was the only one to do it. Feeding was poor.

Yesterday I noticed one of the original two koi was agitated. She with swim at a faster pace for a second or two, as if to avoid being caught.

This am I noticed both of the original koi had a brown's tint to their white scales, a little like the brown spot on you see on some Shiro utsuri tosai head.

The 3 new koi seem fine (other than the swimming pattern of one) and they seemed to be "gasping" a little. Appetite is still poor.

What gives ?? so I am..

1) replacing the water over the next 24 hours and adding a liitle baking soda, maybe 1/4 lb three times a day over the next 3 days. That pH change is puzzling. My KH is ok, but if that were true why would the ph be so low (for my pond.) ?? For only the original two koi to look bad, something was happening in the pond prior to introducing their new sisters. ???

I'm completely stopping the feedings. Maybe I was overfeeding over a long time and only now see the consequences.

?? Early infection ??

The other koi acting like they are gasping. The oxygenation is good, central air bubbles and great water filter turnover ??

Need advice and opinions.



Bad time to have issues just after adding 3 new fish.

Any feed back on your fishes health issues?

Did you manage to correct your KH.

Could you take a good in focus pic, of these brown tints on the head scales?

Did you quarantine the new fish?

[dtimm822]

I appreciate everyone's help.

I'll send a pic of the Shiro. Posting pics on this forum is an issue with me not understanding the process. Will get help from my staff.

In terms of quarantine, I got them the same day from Purdin Koi, a place 1 and 1/2 hours south of me (Natchez Miss.) The water temps were similar. The three new fish (each 18-19 inches, 18 months of age), showed no adjustment issues other than not eating. 4 days later still not feeding much. There pond pH is 7.4-7.5. I got my first two fish from them in May.

My KH has never been a problem, 150-180. Here's the story that makes no sense to me. This sounds crazy, but here goes.. I was fortunate to avoid the "new pond" syndrome. Got the pond finished, filter running x 2-3 weeks, and added water lettuce and hyacinths. Learned about chlorine and chloramine quickly as my amazon bought plants began to quickly die in my tap water filled basins, and quickly recovered after a heavy ran. Ha ! Didn't know chlorine messed with plants as much as with fish. Plants thrived. The blue hyacinth's blossoms were gorgeous. My pond values were consistent with the tap water. I know this for a fact. I tested my tap water for 2-3 months, May to June. Ph 9 ish, KH 180 ish, nitrites ,ammonium, nitrated all negative (my nitrate rose and stayed at 5ppm several months after the fish were in. with the flourishing plants. i was a little worried about the "high" pH and didn't understand that a high KH not only is a great pH buffer, but keeps pH 8.1 -8.4. I hate that pH measurement isn't accurate to the 0.1. The color is so difficult to interpret. I use two methods, high range pH. and another colorimetric method. Added two small koi in June and all was status quo.

Tested water daily, then every other day, then twice a week since all numbers were stable. Even with the two koi my nitrates were negative. I guess the abundant plants consumed them.

Then about 1 month ago my ph started to slowly drift down. ?? But I was happy, because I read pH 7.0 to 7.5 were better for the fish's growth. Went on vacation twice and ph was low 8 ish, with another overseer.

I know, ,I know that the tap water pH was 9 ish. I know. Stopped testing it in june. Why not!

Well about 1 week prior to introducing the three new Koi, i was confused by the pH's. They were drifting down in high 7's. No big deal.

The week prior to adding the new koi the pH's were a little lower, no big deal I thought.

The day or so before introducing the new denizens, my color pH indicators, definitely was in the mid 7's. Added the 3 new fish and my dilemma began.

i'll give an update and answer the last question above, but how in the living hell was the pond pH so low after a stable 8 ish over 5 months. I called the director of our county's water system (a distant friend) and he said, hold on to your britches, the county water pH was, is and always 7.4 !!! So for the first time in 4 months I checked it and it was 7.4 ??!! 7.4 ??!! I shared this with him and he had no answers. ??? Amazing ??

Guys (and gals) i'm not a fool. I read directions well. I have good color vision. I'm not an idiot. How in the world has my water source in past been 9? In fact, early in my pond management I was thinking of collecting rain water off my roof and storing it to mix it with my tap water to keep a lower pH. In fact a few times, prior to introducing my fish, I added white vinegar to lower the pH but it wasn't a long term fix.

??? i hope so of you have insight to this...

up-to-date.. slowly replaced 2/3 the volume of the pond, have added about 1/2 lb baking soda daily (slowly), and am cleaning my filter daily. My ph is 7.5 ish. Will add baking soda until pH is in low 8's.

The brown stain to the small Shiro is disappearing, the fish act calmer, but still not feeding.

??? Weird ???

[coolwon]

Has, the fish with a list improved it's posture.

Are none of the fish interested in the food?

Could the food, some how have been tainted with it's surrounds,maybe a spillage onto the food of a garden product kept adjacent to

it.

Just surmising.

Is your pond construction material releasing something unbeknown to you,which is affecting the pH

Have the fish shoaled together?

[aquaholic]

Fish getting sick shortly after new fish additions sounds like quarrantine has failed.

For your pH query: When chlorine or chloramine is added to water, it makes an acid (hypochlorous acid) which lowers the pH value at water treatment and thats what you measure straight from the tap. When you dechlorinate, the pH will return to its original level.