Egg bound, going to have infection

[leAnn]

Hello everyone! My showa’s belly gets bigger and bigger. Soft belly …About to looks like the dropsy. I am about to QT and treat as a sick koi before she gets an infection. Do you any idea ? Thank you for your inputs!
Video https://youtube.com/shorts/qbJFXMBrZ...wVWlzqY8Nqak0L

I forgot to mention:
9000 gallons, 30 kois, RDF, Showers, moving beds filter
PH, NH4, NO2, NO3 in good range

[kdh]

Your koi looks pretty fat. Are you sure its egg bound. The area sticking out is an infection causing the scales to swell in that area. Dropsy the hole koi would look like that and chances of saving it would be slim to none. You could try using Tricide Neo and fallow directions. Its a good product for bacterial infections. However if it is more an internal infection than injectables would be required. Maybe baytril. Get the tricide as quickly as possible and apply. https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...08-Tricide-Neo

IF your koi is eggbound and the eggs are starting to rot and the koi is starting to go septic than baytril or anything else well not save her.

That is a very nice koi. Hope things work out. Call a fish vet if you have one in the area. Time is important.

Thats my guess and I could be wrong.

[coolwon]

Probably a Tumor.

They go about their life, eating quite normally and waddling about.

All the time they are getting bigger and more ungainly.

Eventually they cant swim with any composure.

Time to consider putting the fish out of it's misery.

[kdh]

Probably a Tumor.

They go about their life, eating quite normally and waddling about.

All the time they are getting bigger and more ungainly.

Eventually they cant swim with any composure.

Time to consider putting the fish out of it's misery.

Very well could be.

She said it was soft and tumors are generally hard.

[leAnn]

Thanks for inputs. I don’t have experience to treat the eggs bound! Both sides are soft. One side started get bigger than other side and getting infection in the last 2 days (scales sticking out and red skin) I will put her in “sleep” and try if I can squeeze the eggs out. If not, worse case she has dropsy, will inject antibiotic and will be QT with heavy salt and Albagin. I will update the result.

[fly4koi]

Probably egg bound + internal infection, though that pinecone is a bit concerning. I would suggest quick injection to stabilize and then deal with the eggs later.

Can you get a picture of the vent to confirm the sex?

[leAnn]

Confirm she is female. I agree. I will give azactam shot tomorrow to stop the red skin then QT

[fly4koi]

I had a chagoi with very big belly, so much so it's bending the spine and interfering with her floating/swimming. The belly feels soft, like liquid is filled inside when i lightly tap on it. I did a round of Baytril injection (5 dose in 7 days) and supported with 0.5ppm Oxolinic Acid, the swelling went down significantly, but I wasn't able to deal with the egg bound issue and she got worse again in about 6 months later and died.

If you have insights on techniques to release the egg, please let us know. I have used Ovaprim once but no luck, I'm preparing my pond for some egg laying brushes to see if that would help, recently also lost another koi due to egg bound.

[aquaholic]

I really feel for you guys/gals as hand stripping is relatively easy once you have some confidence /experience. If belly is soft, the eggs are ready. Perhaps a small male to bully and push the female would help?

I sometimes use a teflon micro bore tube to clear blocked egg tube. 2mm OD - 1mm ID about 40cm long. It's the centre pore, slide tube in, slight mouth suck to confirm (eggs - not poo) then withdraw and hand strip. Some unripened eggs get released but still clumped which can block egg release. On a bigger fish, an extra person helps - holding the belly so you stripping from higher contains the pressure to genital vent - you don't want the pressure to dissapate as belly is soft and stretchable.

[fly4koi]

I really feel for you guys/gals as hand stripping is relatively easy once you have some confidence /experience. If belly is soft, the eggs are ready. Perhaps a small male to bully and push the female would help?

I sometimes use a teflon micro bore tube to clear blocked egg tube. 2mm OD - 1mm ID about 40cm long. It's the centre pore, slide tube in, slight mouth suck to confirm (eggs - not poo) then withdraw and hand strip. Some unripened eggs get released but still clumped which can block egg release. On a bigger fish, an extra person helps - holding the belly so you stripping from higher contains the pressure to genital vent - you don't want the pressure to dissapate as belly is soft and stretchable.

Yea I have a difficult time finding video instructions about both of these techniques.... how deep should the teflon tube go in?

[aquaholic]

One end of canulation tube I cut at 45 degrees, mostly so I know that's the insertion end as I stick the other end in my mouth. I initially buff the sharpness off the 45 degree tip after cutting. Silicone microtube would suffice but thats less slippery and more floppy.

There are 2 visible vents with the anus vent closest to tail and normally larger. You want the other vent (likely extended and pointy) which internally splits to urine and a branch to ovaries/eggs. Luckily with egg compaction this vent and internal egg tube will be much larger and wider. Initially aim teflon tube directly perpendicular to the back - dorsal with gentle twists and light pressure. Once inserted, the tube will slide until you feel resistance which is where you want to be. Depending on fish size, about 6 - 8cm. Apply slight suction with mouth then pull tube out to confirm eggs. If you have eggs, the fish egg tube is likely cleared. Hand strip again.

Before canulation, do attempt hand stripping. Sometimes a "pop" of caked egg mass occurs then eggs begin to free flow. A light hand lubricant such as aloe vera may help. Especially if hand stripping is lengthy. If you only want to remove eggs (not breeding) then you could try in shallow water for more lubrication but I prefer on a wet board.

If all fails, it's possible to puncture the fish through the side with a sharp hollow marinate syringe to expell eggs. Something like this - https://www.bunnings.com.au/char-gri...ector_p0122532 . Once punctured, remove the syringe, leaving hollow needle in place. The eggs free flow with some hand pressure. This is a bit extreme but your fish is likely to die if egg compaction is severe. There is a lot of pressure on internal organs and swim bladder. I'm not advocating you do this, but I personally would.

The puncture wound will heal. I've not had to do this yet but I've done a bit of severe fish surgery.

Dont forget to rinse clean the canulation tube. It would be best to practice on other fish for familiarity before you really need to save a valuable fish. You can practice canulation anytime.

[fly4koi]

Thanks @aquaholic, I will get the tube, I do have a marinate injector...I guess when it comes to do....

I'm attaching the chagoi that died with before/after pictures of Baytril injection, you can see how the belly came down in about a week of time.

[kdh]

Dont see how sticking a large marinate syringe is going to work. You would have to really work on squeezing all the eggs to the syringe. And you would not get them all by any means possible this way. This would not stop left over eggs from deteriorating and continuing with infection then going septic. Or possibly introducing bacteria into the opening created. It also does not fix the initial problem of why she cannot release the eggs. Also I would thing the opening of the of needle would soon clog up with material. As the eggs are attached together with material that would soon clog it up.