Kohaku spawning questions

[vant]

Hi All

Hoping to try spawning some of my koi fishes next summer and trying to gather information.

These are my options. Wondering if anyone knows which type of koi would result from the pairings below

Normal kohaku x normal kohaku
Normal kohaku x gin Rin kohaku
Normal kohaku x doitsu kohaku
Normal kohaku x metallic doitsu kohaku

[Orlando]

Good morning Vant, I would recommend kohaku x kohaku. Crosses within same varieties are easier to predict you will see kohaku, Benigoi, aka kohaku, Shiro muji those will be the main players you could end up with a few odd balls but those would be a guess. As far as numbers the numbers will depend on the size of the female the larger the koi the higher yield. What' are the ages and sizes of your female's?

[vant]

That makes sense. They ll be 3 years next summer and around 10-12in in size.got them all at the same time so really easy to track

[Orlando]

That makes sense. They ll be 3 years next summer and around 10-12in in size.got them all at the same time so really easy to track

This is just my opinion based on what I've learned working with koi, I use to believe that 3yrs old for a female was old enough for her too produce good fry well after several attempts with 3 females I've discovered that healthier and larger/stronger fry starts around year 5 am not saying that a 3yr old female can't produce fry what am saying is that I've discovered that at year 5 the fry are way better and stronger than what a 3yr old female will produce. Having said that one also has to take under consideration the size of the female if one wants to produce decent size koi I wouldn't breed a female that hasn't reached atleast 24" , once the female breeds she jumps cycles and slows down growing in order to concerve energy to breed vrs growing I hope this helps you in your process of koi welcome to a wonderful hobby and dress your self with patience because koi breeding is not a race is a marathon there are Japanese families that are in their 3rd and 4th generation of koi breeders.

[Matt24]

Hi Vant. Though I've done several spawnings, this year is my first serious attempt with kohaku, so learning every year.

Crossing regular scaled with ginrin is okay to do in the back yard, and I sometimes do. But I like the variety in my results. It depends partly on how much you like ginrin. Is it a good strategy for a professional? I don't know.

If you consider breeding fully scaled to Doitsu, one consideration is the combination of scalation types you can get. Half of the fry will be Doitsu, and half not-Doitsu. But the percentage that may be leather Doitsu or linear Doitsu or scattered scaled (junk) can vary based up genetics of the adults, some of which you don't know and some of which you can tell by looking. If you have a Doitsu koi in mind, is it leather (no scales on the side) or linear (a single row of scales on the lateral line)?

I know less about crossing metallic with non-metallic. From my little experience with it, metallic seemed to be a rather dominant trait, with a high percentage of the fry being metallic. But I don't know the genetics of just how that works.

It makes since that fry from small females would be smaller, at least early on. I have seen that small females produce smaller eggs than larger females. I am now raising fry from a spawn of three-year-old kohaku this spring. But these had grown to the 19"-20" range at three years. I gather that yours are 10"-12 " now and have some time to get a little more size before the spring.

Maybe females can have more fry if not spawned in consecutive years. I don't know. But I used the same female in spawns three years straight and used another one in back to back years. I still have some koi from those repeated spawns.

Whatever you decide, I say go for it. The koi are not the only ones that need to develop. If you are new to this, you need to learn and hone your strategies too. The lessons learned from a this try can help you get better results the next time, and you might even get some good ones there first time.

[vant]

That makes sense Orlando. I'm thinking maybe I'll take next year as a trail one though and maybe by the time they reach 5years, I would have better experience. This summer, I have been feeding more often in smaller amount and they seem to be grower faster. Hopefully by next year's they'll be bigger and be able to lay healthier sized eggs.

[vant]

Hi Matt24,
Thank you for all the information. In regards to the doitsu pairing, I was wondering what kind of scale pattern I would be getting when I pair a scale with a complete scaleless koi. Now that I have the info, I'm thinking of sticking to pairing scale with scale for uniformity.
Thankfully only have 2 metallic so maybe I'll just let those two grow and not pair them. Or if I'm lucky, maybe one is male and one is female so I can trying pairing them later, haha.
I have 6 normal kohaku so hopefully their should at least be 1 male and 1 female in the group.
Next year will most likely be a trial year and will be learning a lot. In the meantime, will be taking this time to gather more info and focus on growing the koi to a bigger size.

And just have another question since you have paired kohaku fishes before, do you know usually for kohaku koi fry, what colors do you keep when you are doing culling? Thanks

[Matt24]

... And just have another question since you have paired kohaku fishes before, do you know usually for kohaku koi fry, what colors do you keep when you are doing culling? Thanks

Sounds like you've got a good base plan vant, with details to work out over time. Since this is my first year doing a kohaku spawn, maybe others with more kohaku experience will respond. While searching for such answers myself, I have gathered a few links that you may find helpful for selection/culling and put them in post #42 at
https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ku-Spawn/page3
Others here have also commented on selection in posts #20 & #46 of that thread.

[vant]

Sounds like you've got a good base plan vant, with details to work out over time. Since this is my first year doing a kohaku spawn, maybe others with more kohaku experience will respond. While searching for such answers myself, I have gathered a few links that you may find helpful for selection/culling and put them in post #42 at
https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ku-Spawn/page3
Others here have also commented on selection in posts #20 & #46 of that thread.

Awesome, thank you Matt24!