In search of Roddy Conrad's 7 day PP treatment

[cottagefog]

I have used Roddy Conrad's 7 day PP treatment for years. I never wrote it down, I always visited this forum and would read and follow.

I would just type in Roddy Conrads name in the search bar and it would always be close to the top of the search list. Maybe even in a "Birdman" discussion.

It is NOT the "Roddy’s current potassium permanganate practice"

If any of the Adnim, or old timers remember seeing the 7 day, I need some guidance!


If I remember it went something like this.

Day 1 PP
Day 2 PP
Day 3 do nothing
Day 4 PP
Day 5 do nothing
Etc....

Thanks for any help!!

[*Ci*]

This is from Roark who was a contemporary of Dr. Conrad - It is highly possible that the protocol originated with Roddy:

[cottagefog]

Thank you so much! That is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

As I get older, my memory gets tangled in the spider webs of life!

Yes it was ROARK and EIGHT DAYS !!!!

Not sure why me typing in Roddy's name would get me to this protocol, but it did!

Now I need to print this, and laminate it!

Again thank you!!!

[BWG]

Here is Dr Roddy's in depth article on using PP. This site also references Roark.

https://www.jackmcneary.com/html/pot...manganate_.htm

What ever happened to Roark and his web site?

[fly4koi]

Here is Dr Roddy's in depth article on using PP. This site also references Roark.

https://www.jackmcneary.com/html/pot...manganate_.htm

What ever happened to Roark and his web site?

found this: https://www.koi-bito.com/forum/forum...oark-s-website

[aquaholic]

Using PP is an aquired skill and probably at the expense of some fish deaths/failures to gain valuable experience unfortunately.

I've used PP in a purpose built treatment tank to eliminate flukes and it was an abysmal failure despite ever increasing PP dosage rates. Verified with a microscope, waited 24 hours in case the flukes were moving after death. The flukes kept happily waving to me while copper knocked them out rapidly.
Using colour to judge PP strength is so subjective and a recipe for disaster in my opinion. I kept a sample of the original titration for a side by side comparison.

I am not a fan of PP but I would be using an ORP meter if I needed to treat a large volume of water. Allowing proper time for mixing and dispersal of PP hot spots.

[BWG]

Several stories through the years of sick fish after PP treatments. Possibly from burned tissues opening the door to various disease and infection. No different than about any type of treatment over applied or done during high stress periods, such as high heat. More fish die from kindness than disease or parasites.

Good to know PP is not a good fluke treatment. What is your preference and protocol on copper based treatments?

[coolwon]

Couple of words should do it,PP is just cheap and nasty!

Beware, never mind burnt gills.

Burnt fingers!

[SimonW]

Using PP is an aquired skill and probably at the expense of some fish deaths/failures to gain valuable experience unfortunately.

I've used PP in a purpose built treatment tank to eliminate flukes and it was an abysmal failure despite ever increasing PP dosage rates. Verified with a microscope, waited 24 hours in case the flukes were moving after death. The flukes kept happily waving to me while copper knocked them out rapidly.
Using colour to judge PP strength is so subjective and a recipe for disaster in my opinion. I kept a sample of the original titration for a side by side comparison.

I am not a fan of PP but I would be using an ORP meter if I needed to treat a large volume of water. Allowing proper time for mixing and dispersal of PP hot spots.

I would like to know the treatment protocol using copper against fluke, thanks!

By the way, are you really sure that PP cannot kill flukes? It is not logical, because per body weight microscopic flukes have much more surface area than koi do so that they must be more severely attacked by pp.

[aquaholic]

Unfortunately I'm away from my fish property which has all my dosage notes and fish text books. I would only be guessing from memory if I posted a dosage but I can after my next visit there.

PP is appealing to use because its active ingredient strength is visibly easy to see but it's effective availability depends on organic load so one dose does not fit all. And the depth of colour is very subjective. I find it to be very mild against parasites but it does have its place.
As per my earlier comment, an ORP meter would be a more reliable method to guage strength as you require relatively high doses for parasite eradication. Parasite control or algae treatments would be lower (safer) concentrations

If your after a single simple dose for parasite treatment, copper is NOT for you.
Copper solubility is affected by pH, hardness, oxygen level, organic load, temperature. And dissolved copper has 2 forms with only Cu2+ being the active (poisionous) form. So posting my dosage is not terribly useful apart from a general guide
I use a hanna colourmetric meter which shows a digital value of Cu2+ and monitor a collected parasite sample with microscope to determine effectiveness. Copper will kill fish quite fast if you overdose. This can be useful if your watching fish and behaviour carefully.

PP, F-MG, can burn fish which isn't apparent until much later and is terrible to watch as the damage is done with necrotic burnt tissue sloughing off days later. You hope they pull through but some take days to die. All medications are poisons so we walk the buffer boundary between lethality to parasites and fish.

On the topic of flukes, I like to alternate treatments to slow resistance development. Salt is quite good in a treatment tank situation as KOI have a good salt tolerance and its extremely satisfying to watch flukes explode from osmotic pressures (under microscope)

[aquaholic]

I have quite a few fish disease books but I particularly like "Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment" by Edward Noga.

There is distiinction between parasite control and parasite eradication.
Treating ponds or large water volumes has its own set of challenges as well.

[fly4koi]

What concentration of salt do you use against the flukes?

[aquaholic]

Let me refer to my notes before replying. I've only just left my fish property so it well be several days unfortunately.

There are recommended salt dosages online from reputable sources and KOI can handle sea water salinity levels so there is a wide margin of error.

I forgot to mention previously that PP is easily reduced with H2O2 which is comforting but copper is also easily reduced by changing its solubility - add salt (hardness), or increase pH or add sodium thiosulphate etc.

[BWG]

It should be noted that even Dr Roddy who knew how to use PP had multiple fish get sick and die after a series of his PP treatments. He insisted it wasn't related but it's a suspicious coincidence. Use with caution.

He was also showcasing and pushing the growth of these fish. Focusing on the benefits of a schedule of systematic PP treatments. More PP exposure than normal.

[aquaholic]

PP definitely has it's place and is useful.
The best way to gain valuable experience is from mistakes unfortunately.