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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 38 of 38

    Thread: help me understand why no rocks?

    1. #21
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Post#19 3rd picture down with the flagstone surround needs maybe a skimmer or alternatively a well designed foam fractionator.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

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    2. #22
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      The original filtration was not good - a filter/cleaner box with a submerged pump, and there were tons of plants in the pond and the stream which worked a little like a bog. But they also created a lot of debris because koi like plants and to root around in the roots and make a big mess. But honestly it doesn't matter what you have, if there are places for dirt to hide it will find them and accumulate there.

      I've intentionally kept my fish load to about 1 per 500 gallons.

      When I did the big rebuild in 2011, i put in a bottom drain. No rocks. Still a lot of plants. Then 2 cetus sieves which sent the water either to 2 s&g filters or to a shower. Eventually I pulled the cetus sieves & s&G filters and put in a drum filter, which I just pulled out and replaced with an UltraSieve III.

      The leaking on the stream was partly plants finding their way into the water (very shallow), dogs moving the rocks around, and animals digging around the edges. I've never found a hole in the liner, and there were plenty of opportunities.

      I've been pulling all the plants out over the last 2 years. the debris was not worth it. And - plants require maintenance. The boulder edge made it very difficult to reach into the pond to clean out the dead lily leaves, for example.

      You are right, the smooth walking edge is a matter of preference but as I age I want fewer opportunities to hurt myself.

    3. #23
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      Re the foam/skimmers:

      There are two skimmers that you can't see in the pic. And the foam is an issue, but the fish are on their second spawn in a week so I'm going to let them settle down before I get serious about that.

    4. #24
      twd000 is offline Junior Member
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      interesting comment about the plants. I'm interested in the water-gardening as much as I am the koi

      maybe what I'm looking for is a "water garden with goldfish", rather than a "koi pond" which is why some of the advice here at Koiphen doesn't quite match my goals

      "The differences between Koi and goldfish are many. Both are descendants from carp, but koi are usually larger and have feeler barbels. Goldfish have a more compressed body shape and bigger fins. Koi are more aggressive and tend to eat plants and destroy them, especially the larger koi. Koi become destructive when they grow to 8-11 inches, they tend to tear up or eat any new plant that is placed in the pond and even some existing, established plants. Goldfish can grow quite large, depending on the size of the pond. Goldfish are a gentler fish and do not destroy plants. Both fish are bred for their beauty and ornamental appeal in ponds. Both fish add waste to your pond water, it is best not to feed them or if you choose to, feed them sparingly. You can add goldfish to your water garden but keep the koi in a pond of their own!"

      https://pondmegastore.com/pages/what...a-water-garden
      Last edited by twd000; 1 Week Ago at 04:27 PM.

    5. #25
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      There are a lot of beautiful goldfish out there if you seek them out, some even rival the colours of kohaku, sanke and showa koi. Blackwater creek has a great selection:

      https://koisale.com/pick-your-variety-goldfish/

      Some interesting goldfish Iíve had over the years:

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      This fish was a pure deep yellow -
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      ________________________________________
      Cheers,
      Ci


    6. #26
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      watergardens are beautiful, and so are a lot of goldfish. Goldfish are a lot less destructive to plants, I think, but in my experience the breed like crazy so watch out for that.

      I started with a lot of plants and both koi and goldfish. But that combination was not sustainable for me. I think watergardens are really beautiful and I loved having all the plants. Over the years by tastes and interests have changed and that okay too.
      Last edited by Voyant; 1 Week Ago at 12:29 AM.

    7. #27
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      My bog filter was a similar sized area to the pool/pond. The bog plants grew really fast and needed considerable maintenance itself. I could feed the fish with fresh food and natural spawning media though.

      Hopefully your experience will be better.

    8. #28
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      I will give my experience on rocks vs no rocks as I have both in 2 separate ponds.
      My smaller pond is overstocked with golsfish and shibunkins and has a bottom pump to a pressure canister filter with a bareish liner. Couple pieces of slate here and there. This pond whenever I get in it is slippery!
      My bigger pond is overstocked with koi and has a fully rocked bottom with white and tan like 3/4" rock while the sides and edges are all done in bigger rock. It is fed by a pump in the skimmer that gravity feeds to a biofalls. (i was bit by the aquascape bug)

      The rock pond looks significantly better, lets just get that out of the way! It looks more like a natural pond than the other, there are no ifs ands or buts about it, which is why I did it.

      That being said, it is quite a bit more maintenance and quite a bit more stress!
      The bottom is always dark. No matter what I do and done, its always perpetually dark! There is always a fine layer of biological film on the rocks. It is this way on the liner as well, but it hits different on the rocks.
      The ecosystem itself seems to be working great as long as I keep up with it. The water parameters I only check once in awhile and its always dead on!
      The fish do get some sores and beat up scales once in awhile. Partially from them getting crazy and bumping into the rocks and I am sure some are parasitic from birds droppings in the pond. I have my good days and my mediocre days with water clarity. Most of this is just the fines floating around in the water and the koi kicking stuff up.

      That being said, I am now on a regimen of vaccuming the bottom a couple times a summer for good measure and have now added matala mats to my biofalls and skimmer in which I have a reminder to rinse bi-weekly since these fish create sooooo much waste. As long as I keep on that regimen, i can maintain crispy clear water with like 2-3' visibility to a dark abyss of the bottom.
      The smaller pond, I can go all summer if I wanted to without even cracking the drain for the pressure filter. I dont really touch a single thing and that pond thrives and is crystal clear to the bottom. Quality wise, the water quality is exactly the same.


      If you have any specific questions or want to see the difference, I can post plenty of videos and pictures.
      Last edited by PM-Performance; 5 Days Ago at 08:09 AM.

    9. #29
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      Build your pond in a manner that you can handle it as the years go by. My pond has been in 18 years, exceedingly easy to maintain and that is important as age caught up with me along with Parkinsonís disease. I built my last pond first. 10,000 gallons, polyurea over gunite. 6.5 feet deep, no rocks to gather debris.

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by PM-Performance View Post
      I will give my experience on rocks vs no rocks as I have both in 2 separate ponds.
      My smaller pond is overstocked with golsfish and shibunkins and has a bottom pump to a pressure canister filter with a bareish liner. Couple pieces of slate here and there. This pond whenever I get in it is slippery!
      My bigger pond is overstocked with koi and has a fully rocked bottom with white and tan like 3/4" rock while the sides and edges are all done in bigger rock. It is fed by a pump in the skimmer that gravity feeds to a biofalls. (i was bit by the aquascape bug)

      The rock pond looks significantly better, lets just get that out of the way! It looks more like a natural pond than the other, there are no ifs ands or buts about it, which is why I did it.

      That being said, it is quite a bit more maintenance and quite a bit more stress!
      The bottom is always dark. No matter what I do and done, its always perpetually dark! There is always a fine layer of biological film on the rocks. It is this way on the liner as well, but it hits different on the rocks.
      The ecosystem itself seems to be working great as long as I keep up with it. The water parameters I only check once in awhile and its always dead on!
      The fish do get some sores and beat up scales once in awhile. Partially from them getting crazy and bumping into the rocks and I am sure some are parasitic from birds droppings in the pond. I have my good days and my mediocre days with water clarity. Most of this is just the fines floating around in the water and the koi kicking stuff up.

      That being said, I am now on a regimen of vaccuming the bottom a couple times a summer for good measure and have now added matala mats to my biofalls and skimmer in which I have a reminder to rinse bi-weekly since these fish create sooooo much waste. As long as I keep on that regimen, i can maintain crispy clear water with like 2-3' visibility to a dark abyss of the bottom.
      The smaller pond, I can go all summer if I wanted to without even cracking the drain for the pressure filter. I dont really touch a single thing and that pond thrives and is crystal clear to the bottom. Quality wise, the water quality is exactly the same.


      If you have any specific questions or want to see the difference, I can post plenty of videos and pictures.
      when you say overstocked with koi - how many fish in how many gallons?

      how are you vacuuming the the rock-bottom pond - with a pool vacuum on a pole?

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    11. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by UnkleTim View Post
      Build your pond in a manner that you can handle it as the years go by. My pond has been in 18 years, exceedingly easy to maintain and that is important as age caught up with me along with Parkinson’s disease. I built my last pond first. 10,000 gallons, polyurea over gunite. 6.5 feet deep, no rocks to gather debris.
      valid consideration

      for me, the "look" is as important as the fish. For that reason if a gunite pond were the choice I would forgo the project altogether

    12. #32
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      It sounds like your actually after a goldfish or natural pond but asking for advice and experiences from KOI keepers?

      Everyones expectations and experiences will differ. The internet is full of ideas and opinions.
      Even a natural stream will silt up considerably deep (I have one on my property boundary), change it's course and have turbidity issues from time to time.

    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by aquaholic View Post
      It sounds like your actually after a goldfish or natural pond but asking for advice and experiences from KOI keepers?

      Everyones expectations and experiences will differ. The internet is full of ideas and opinions.
      Even a natural stream will silt up considerably deep (I have one on my property boundary), change it's course and have turbidity issues from time to time.
      for sure, everyone has specific goals with their pond. I believe you can learn something from anyone even if you're goals aren't 100% aligned.

    14. #34
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      has anyone with a rock-covered liner experimented with using a pool brush to disturb the sediment, so it can be sucked into the filter?

      when I scruff around the rocks of a natural lake, the algae and sediment comes off in a cloud of particulates. Seems you could do this with a long-handled pool brush and allow your pump to suck it into the filter where it could be removed. Rather than draining and powerwashing rocks as shown in the Aquascape "spring cleanout" videos.

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by twd000 View Post
      when you say overstocked with koi - how many fish in how many gallons?

      how are you vacuuming the the rock-bottom pond - with a pool vacuum on a pole?
      I estimate about 3k gallons with the rock and shelves. Like 30-32 koi
      I have a pond vac

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by twd000 View Post
      has anyone with a rock-covered liner experimented with using a pool brush to disturb the sediment, so it can be sucked into the filter?

      when I scruff around the rocks of a natural lake, the algae and sediment comes off in a cloud of particulates. Seems you could do this with a long-handled pool brush and allow your pump to suck it into the filter where it could be removed. Rather than draining and powerwashing rocks as shown in the Aquascape "spring cleanout" videos.
      I do this often actually. I don’t have string algae problems, but I will knock some stuff off the rocks and kick things up a bit.
      I can’t say it really helps. The water just stays cloudy for a bit.
      A vac is a better use of time

    17. #37
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      wow that is a lot of koi. I'm thinking of keeping 1/3 of that many koi, in a pond 3x the size of yours

      how often do you use the pond vac?

      is that your only cleanout method, or do you also do a yearly "drain and powerwash"?

    18. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by twd000 View Post
      wow that is a lot of koi. I'm thinking of keeping 1/3 of that many koi, in a pond 3x the size of yours

      how often do you use the pond vac?

      is that your only cleanout method, or do you also do a yearly "drain and powerwash"?
      Absolutely no on drain outs and cleans. I barely if ever even take any water out of it.
      I clean out the biofalls more often now, but was maybe quarterly before.
      I vac maybe 2x a year at the beginning of the season when I get a bug up my butt for
      Clarity.

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