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  • Results 1 to 11 of 11

    Thread: Random fish deaths

    1. #1
      ccokeman is offline Junior Member
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      Random fish deaths

      Hello, Looking for a bit of advice. 3 year old pond rebuild. Roughly 3100-3200 gallons.

      Filtration:
      3 inch bottom drain to a Cetus Sieve. Hybrid skimmer using Helix floating weir and basket feeding into the sieve.
      6300 GPH W Lim pump to a 55 watt UV to a sand and gravel filter feeding 2 Bio barrels with 3CF of K1. 3 inch return to the pond and 2 inch to the water fall. Aeration is a 100lph pump feeding the Bio and a 9 inch aerator in the bottom of the pond.

      Water parameters
      PH 8.2-8.3
      Ammonia 0- .25
      KH 10 drops
      Nitrite 0
      Nitrate 5ppm

      5 fish left 1 -18 inch, 3x 10-12 inch and one 8 inch. All Koi. No new koi in 8 months.

      I struggle with a river birch dumping seeds and seed pods into the pond but the system does pretty well this time of year capturing the load. I do have some Docs but do weekly water changes of about 3-500 gallons. I use double the dechlorinator based on the directions to handle the chloramine in the water when I live.

      I have been losing fish over the past 2 months. 8 in total. Most have appeared to have the same symptoms.

      They are lethargic then flash around the bottom swimming in circles then end up dead on the bottom or in the skimmer. They look swollen like they have dropsy and a few streaks but that is dependent on when I find the fish. Gills look normal when they are fresh.

      Thinking bacterial but am at a loss and do not want to lose any more fish. Have not started salting the pond yet. At my wits end as I have lost more fish the past year than in the past 20.

      Thanks in advance.

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    2. #2
      cindy's Avatar
      cindy is offline Administrator
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      What’s the water temp? Any notches in the nose? Sunken eyes. I don’t see any water problem
      Or toxins with the birch. Next guess is parasites or bacteria from the new fish. Warm temps bringing them out.

      I’d be ordering BSDT and fluke m for parasites

    3. #3
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Agree, I'd just shotgun treatment the pond and see if it helps.

    4. #4
      kdh is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by cindy View Post
      What’s the water temp? Any notches in the nose? Sunken eyes. I don’t see any water problem
      Or toxins with the birch. Next guess is parasites or bacteria from the new fish. Warm temps bringing them out.

      I’d be ordering BSDT and fluke m for parasites
      What does notch nose and sunken eyes mean?

    5. #5
      nmtsaki's Avatar
      nmtsaki is offline Moderator ~ WWKC Secretary
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      What does notch nose and sunken eyes mean?
      Costia/KHV symptom







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    6. #6
      kdh is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by nmtsaki View Post
      Costia/KHV symptom
      Sunken eye and notched nose is an indication of dehydration. Dehydration is a symptom of a problem and can be from many things viral, bacteria, parasite,poison etc. Dehydration of a fish is not specific to khv or costia. Or any other condition.
      Many koi have died from KHV without sunken eye or notched nose. Same with costia.
      Last edited by kdh; 1 Week Ago at 07:10 PM.

    7. #7
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      @kdh what would you recommend? Thanks.

    8. #8
      ccokeman is offline Junior Member
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      No notched nose or sunken eyes.

      Costia vs bacterial? Or both possibly.

    9. #9
      kdh is online now Senior Member
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      You have to go back in time when the first koi had symptoms and died. And then go back several days or even a few months to see what has changed in there environment. Bio change , chemicals added, new fish, chemical run offs,metals etc. Doing a shotgun treatment could very well work but it does stress the koi. And if it happens to be a bacterial issue than you have only made things worse. That is just one reason why a koi should be scraped and scoped to find out or help eliminate other possible issues.
      Usually when a koi dies from parasites. There are visible sings and quite often in the gills. But you say the gills look great. Costia kills through the gills for the most part. What do you mean by the fish are bloated? Are they before death? Do they currently have a thick or patches of mucous or no slime coat?
      Going around in circles? Could you elaborate in more detail? Time frame from when they start this and then die?
      Could you give us pics of fish or vid with the problems?

      Costia or bacteria or both. Yes. It can start as costia and then bacteria come into play as the kois immune defense is broke down. It can also be the other way around bacteria and then costia. As costia is very opportunistic parasite. But the combination of first and secondary issues could be from many different parasites and other types of bacteria/viral.. Or combinations of more than one parasite with bacteria.
      What kind of red streaking? And there are no other signs than what you posted.

      I cant find anything that says birch is poisoning to koi. And you have had the pond for three years. So would think it would have been a problem from the beginning. But just a guess on my part.
      I have never heard of a case like yours with koi slowly dying, swimming in circles and then dying bloated.
      Not an expert and really dont know. But the info given is very limited and therefor have no possible idea.
      Hopefully others can help. Scraping and scoping is important.
      Last edited by kdh; 1 Week Ago at 09:25 AM.

    10. #10
      ccokeman is offline Junior Member
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      No major changes in the pond. It is raised 8-10 inches higher than any potential water intrusion or run off.

      Going in circles problem starts a day after lethargy and usually results in death within hours.

      Swollen as in similar to dropsy but not as pronounced. Scales raised somewhat. red streaking at the base of the fins.

      I did pick up a case of snails on a plant before removing them from my pond permanently 3 years ago. They just wont go away. The pond stays clear but the 150 gallon trough I used to feed the waterfall if covered in them.
      Permanganate
      If another dies I'll grab some pictures.

      Is Proform C a good shotgun treatment? Potassium Permanganate maybe?

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    11. #11
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Proform-C + Fluke-M is the most common recommended treatment, the sticky thread at top of this area will have more details.

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