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    Results 41 to 60 of 62

    Thread: Changing food due to pricing

    1. #41
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by aquaholic View Post
      You guys are kidding about corn right? I can't see how fresh - canned or frozen corn would create blockages or problems. I use frozen green peas at least weekly. Sometimes unthawed, sometimes mixed into boiled basmati rice with a decent heap of shaved garlic (bottled).

      One sure fire way to save at least 20% on your Koi food expense is to feed 20% less food...
      From what I read the hull of the corn can be the problem, but the Purina formula use ground corn so that shouldn't be an issue.
      As for the nutritional value, I guess it's up for debate: https://drjohnson.com/protein-in-koi...and-favorites/

      At the end of the day, corns are cheap, fish meal are expensive, you get what you paid for, I suppose.

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    2. #42
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      Processing determines digestibility. For Mazuri the corn is gelatinized during processing and has been tested and verified by live fish trials. Other labs have documented similar results. It's more about marketing and one brand trying to gain share over another on the use of corn products in a blend.

      Any food that has improper dietary protein to energy ratio blend is bad for your koi. Lets look at the facts: Most of us overfeed and use food more targeted for carnivores vs omnivores because we like very fast growth and big fat koi.
      Last edited by BWG; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:56 AM. Reason: Corrected type

    3. #43
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Processing determines digestibility. For Mazuri the corn is gelatinized during processing and has been tested and verified by live fish trials. Other labs have documented similar results. It's more about marketing and one brand trying to gain share over another on the use of corn products in a blend.

      Any food that has improper dietary protein to energy ratio blend is bad for your koi. Lets look at the facts: Most of us overfeed and use food more targeted for carnivores vs herbivores because we like very fast growth and big fat koi.
      Wondering if you still have links to those studies? I've been looking for them but no luck.

    4. #44
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      None of the majors that actually do real world testing now release any white papers on results. Most likely from the negativity and controversy that erupts online. One can find published results on individual ingredients commonly used. Production (non pet) fish food data is easier to find.

      Any food labeled KOI typically has an automatic price increase. Years past I remember 3 Koi targeted brands that would purchase bulk production omnivore blends made somewhere else and then would repack in smaller fancy Koi bags at a several times price increase. One would blend in colored pellets that were coated with a secret ingredient.

      Want to save money? Look for places that sell bulk production fish food and look for a good omnivore blend. Picking up saves big bucks today if the distributor is close. There is no such thing as free shipping, especially today. The free shipping is always included in the price.

      I purchase from a local fish farm that buys in bulk and also sells to the public.
      Last edited by BWG; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:59 PM.

    5. #45
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Most of the information that I found are from university professors or government aquatic farming research institutes, but again they aim for feed conversion ratio so I'm not sure that's a good measure.

      So with the bulk omnivore blend, what's the cost per lb typically?

    6. #46
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      Feed conversion ratios (digestibility), fish health & mortality rates, water quality in recirculating systems are often mentioned. All important raising koi. Typically with good water quality and healthy fish colors are good.

      Haven't purchased any this year yet. In the post Covid world prices are often crazy and fluctuating. Can't remember what I paid last year . This was for Zeigler Finfish Bronze. I know others that feed Silver and G blends that are higher protein and fat for rapid growth. Past years I've also used Aquamax omnivore blends
      Last edited by BWG; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:56 PM.

    7. #47
      aquaholic is offline Supporting Member
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      Pretty sure the prices we are all complaining about will be considered extremely reasonable in 5 years.

      I've been meaning to buy my own (small) pellet mill mostly for quality control than cheaper prices but it's gard to know which mill is better or what mix and source of ingredients is best. Having sufficient preservatives equally as important.

    8. #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mild Bill View Post
      For years we used Saki Hikari multi season but now that the price has skyrocketed (like everything else) we are trying Kensen. The thing is they donít seem to care for it. I started out mixing it with Hikari wheatgerm and then Kensen alone and they just pick at it. It is a slightly larger size. In the past when feeding with Hikari they would go crazy when fed. I not trying to pit one brand over another, I was just wondering what people experience when changing to a different brand.
      I've been feeding with Saki Hikari growth or multi for over 10 years. Multi or or growth depending on which is cheaper. I've noticed the big jump in price too, but I don't care. I used to feed them 2-3 times during the summer but now I think I will feed them once a day all year round. Most of the time I'm digging and gardening in the backyard anyway and will find a few worms which I throw into the pond. Even cooked shrimps are cheaper so if I remember I throw them it too. For carbs chick peas, avocado; grapes will fall into the pond too late summer.
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    9. #49
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by aquaholic View Post
      Pretty sure the prices we are all complaining about will be considered extremely reasonable in 5 years.

      I've been meaning to buy my own (small) pellet mill mostly for quality control than cheaper prices but it's gard to know which mill is better or what mix and source of ingredients is best. Having sufficient preservatives equally as important.
      Presumably it'll be a cold pellet mill, I found a formula here: https://patents-google-com.translate...x_tr_hist=true
      If it was me I would probably just mill enough that'll last maybe weeks and keep the ingredients stored properly so that I don't have to deal with preservatives other than Vitamin C which is widely used.

      I've known someone feeding cheerios to koi, but at $12 / 3 lb, or $4 lb, honestly at 8% protein by weight that's actually more expensive than koi food.
      Last edited by fly4koi; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:57 PM.

    10. #50
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      Without scientific live fish testing with measurable data points some of these blends might not deliver. One would have to be very careful of how each ingredient used is processed and stored to insure it can be processed by koi. Plus keeping all essential elements needed for health in the proper balance. Without measurable data it becomes subjective observations that may not be correct.

      Only time I've heard of Cheerios is cool water feeding. Some claiming the product was easy to digest and good for starting up after winter. Personally I don't know if this is correct, but I enjoy Honey Nut Cheerios.
      Last edited by BWG; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:13 AM.

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    11. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      Without scientific live fish testing with measurable data points some of these blends might not deliver. One would have to be very careful of how each ingredient used is processed and stored to insure it can be processed by koi. Plus keeping all essential elements needed for health in the proper balance. Without measurable data it becomes subjective observations that may not be correct.

      Only time I've heard of Cheerios is cool water feeding. Some claiming the product was easy to digest and good for starting up after winter. Personally I don't know if this is correct, but I enjoy Honey Nut Cheerios.
      I also like the Honey Nut. However my skins gloss and colors are holding up using Best Buy brand vs Kelloggs and a third of the price.
      Last edited by kdh; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:09 AM.

    12. #52
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      Well what the hick. Figured I would give my 3 cents (inflation) worth.

      Aquamaster, mizuri etc are all good foods. And seriously doubt you need to buy the expensive brands. Your not going to tell the difference in quality of kois health with any of the leaser expensive products vs expensive. There have been many wars about koi foods but the bottom line is. Your koi well stay healthy with any of the brands. I had koi for 28 years and would buy expensive and cheap koi foods over the years. As I like to mix up their food brand every year or so. Never noticed a difference in koi.
      Unless you have 4 figure and up priced koi and participated in koi shows. It does not make a difference what brand you pick. All though some brands do foul up the water more.
      Bottom line. They can outlive most of us with healthy lives in the time frame your in the hobbie regardless of food brand.

      Koi are meant to be enjoyed and not worry about a silly thing of what brand is best for them.
      Last edited by kdh; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:38 PM.

    13. #53
      BWG's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      I also like the Honey Nut. However my skins gloss and colors are holding up using Best Buy brand vs Kelloggs and a third of the price.
      I started with the expensive brands but switched to a quality proven blend 6X less

    14. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
      I started with the expensive brands but switched to a quality proven blend 6X less
      whoops I did a mathematical error. Mine is 7x less

    15. #55
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      I'm composing a short list of feeds and source...will share when done, maybe in a few days.

    16. #56
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      Hikari is so expensive in the US due to the marked up, and by that I mean it's marked up by about 300+ %

      I think the normal 4.4lb bag cost something like $16-$25 in Japan vs $60 to $80 while the 33lb bag cost only like $100 vs the $330+ in the US. One thing I notice though, is that the markup price coincidental fall very close to the price you would pay for buying Japan and have them shipped over. For example, the 33lb bag cost $100 but the cheapest option with Fedex gonna cost close $230. So I bet the US market is priced exactly at these price point to ensure the customers wouldn't just buy from Japan as an alternative.

      I seriously doubt Hikari paying the same price for their logistic and they probably shipped via containers. So this definitely feel like the case where the company is making money off the shipping cost rather than product.

    17. #57
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Hikari Staple is about $110 after coupon for 22lb, Gold is maybe $180. With protein content being 35% vs 40% I'm not sure Gold justifies the price difference...
      Typical recommendation for carp feed for crude protein is 35-45% in aquaculture.

    18. #58
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Get a price on 5 mm Tilapia 30% protein maintenance.

      Pretty fish are all about the family's Genes.

      Bigger fish are not all about high protein.

      3 mm pellets of 35% TO 40% protein, for fish growth up to +-250 mm in length.

      Dont mention the word KOI.

      My cats love it,and it attracts flies ?

      Equals fish meal in the mix?
      Last edited by coolwon; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:08 AM.
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    19. #59
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      I'm composing a short list of feeds and source...will share when done, maybe in a few days.
      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...awIWRY/pubhtml

    20. #60
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      This is great! Thank you!

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