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    Thread: Changing food due to pricing

    1. #1
      Mild Bill's Avatar
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      Changing food due to pricing

      For years we used Saki Hikari multi season but now that the price has skyrocketed (like everything else) we are trying Kensen. The thing is they donít seem to care for it. I started out mixing it with Hikari wheatgerm and then Kensen alone and they just pick at it. It is a slightly larger size. In the past when feeding with Hikari they would go crazy when fed. I not trying to pit one brand over another, I was just wondering what people experience when changing to a different brand.

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      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mild Bill View Post
      For years we used Saki Hikari multi season but now that the price has skyrocketed (like everything else) we are trying Kensen. The thing is they don’t seem to care for it. I started out mixing it with Hikari wheatgerm and then Kensen alone and they just pick at it. It is a slightly larger size. In the past when feeding with Hikari they would go crazy when fed. I not trying to pit one brand over another, I was just wondering what people experience when changing to a different brand.
      I used the same brand for 7yrs and was satisfied with it till they made a ingredient change and my water quality went too H__L so I went to Kenzen 2yrs ago and my koi never had an issue I would recommend soaking some of it just to offer something with a different texture to see if that helps, I do have a question; did you go from floating to sinking or vice-versa? because if you did that could be an issue. But they will come around.
      Koiphen 2023 Koi Person of the Year!

    3. #3
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      No, I am still using floating. The only difference is with the Hikari, I used medium size pellets and I believe these are medium from Kensen, but they are much bigger.

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      joe09 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mild Bill View Post
      No, I am still using floating. The only difference is with the Hikari, I used medium size pellets and I believe these are medium from Kensen, but they are much bigger.
      i use sportsman choice they come in 25,40 lb bags.they run about 30 $.i get them from tractors supply. been use them from many years

    5. #5
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      Sportsman Choice is acceptable for supplemental feeding in mud ponds but it is more polluting and not good for closed systems. Not optimized for recirculating systems. I ignore brands and look for approved for recirculating systems, omnivore blend, protein and fat percentages desired and desired ingredients. Kenzen uses potatoes as it's starch and some don't believe it's beneficial for koi. Funny thing about expensive name brands is that many breeders sell and promote but behind the scenes feed a different good lower cost blend with excellent results. It's too costly for them also.

    6. #6
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      It would be nice if you could ask what are a few good low cost brands, but it always starts a war.

    7. #7
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      Years past it often was bad. Too many people posting that had financial connections to the food they were pushing. Most of the individuals that only posted on this forum for business reasons have left for greener pastures.

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      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      I looked at my notes and last time it was Blackwater Max Growth/Color and Zeigler Fancier that are cheaper, but my fish don't care for them so I'm still using Hikari Staple.

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      May be too much effort, but couldn't you boost the palatability of cheaper food with a mist from trigger spray bottle of fish oil (or similar)?

    10. #10
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      For fish my philosophy is they either eat the food being presented or go hungry. In 40+ years haven't found food they wouldn't eat. If the food is healthy, good growth parameters and doesn't foul the water go for it .

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    11. #11
      KingstonKoi is offline Senior Member
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      I switched mine from a year round food to Kenzen with no problem. Had less debris in the pond as well. Agree that you can start by mixing with the old food and just increase the portion of the new food overtime. They will get used to it. Just be sure to scoop out what they don’t eat initially so it doesn’t foul the water.

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      I found Kenzen Primary at about $100 including shipping for 10 lb. or $300 for 40lb, which comes out to be $7.5 per pound, that is more expensive than Hikari Staple at under $5 per pound, I know the protein and fat content is higher for Kenzen, is that why it's considered cheaper per nutrient content? or am I not finding the correct source for Kenzen? Thanks.

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      I find cat food is excellent food for koi. At least those containing fish or shrimp.

    14. #14
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      I remember someone in the past posting their fish were thriving on salmon based dog food. Claimed fat and protein levels were consistent with koi foods. Seem to remember it was Blue Buffalo.

      Ironic premium fish based cat or dog food can sell less per pound vs koi food. For the amount premium koi food costs maybe the person that was blending koi food based on bulk shrimp with shells on and scrambled eggs with a veggie wasn't crazy after all.
      Last edited by BWG; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:05 AM.

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      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Carps are omnivorous though?

    16. #16
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      Correct. I'm definitely not an expert on animal feed. Most cat food appears to have some plant material. Lower cost cat foods appear to have more. Cats as classified as carnivore. Dog food appears to have higher levels of plant material.

      Not making any type of statement on recommending but dog food looks to be closer to a omnivore blend. Many feed high protein and fat carnivore fish food blends to koi for growth. These are blends intended more for trout. Feeding cat food most likely no difference.

      Known several individuals that used inexpensive dog food to feed koi, bass bluegill and catfish in mud ponds. These were non-commercial hobby ponds and fish were also able to forage natural foods. Excellent results! Again these are just casual observations and not recommendations.
      Last edited by BWG; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:20 PM.

    17. #17
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      I quickly checked, the cat food is closer to the koi feed in terms of protein, fat, and fiber composition. There are seafood flavors with some fish/crab/shrimp ingredients as well, they are about $1 a lb. Main difference from the few I compared is that it's corn vs wheat for the fish.

    18. #18
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      Corn as an additive is always a concern for many. Testing shows if property processed it is highly digestible by carp. It's a non issue that is definitely a show stopper for many. Several years ago Purina posted info on corn in Mazuri branded feeds and wow what event it caused online.
      Last edited by BWG; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:07 AM.

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      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      The ingredients are listed in descending order by weight.

      Hakari Staple: Wheat flour, soybean meal, fish meal, rice bran, corn gluten meal, brewers dried yeast, fish oil, garlic, dried seaweed meal, krill meal
      Sakai Hikari: Fish meal, wheat flour, wheat germ meal, brewers dried yeast, dried bakery product, soybean meal, fish oil, corn gluten meal, krill meal, rice bran
      Nijikawa Growth: Fish Meal, Wheat, Poultry Meal, Peas, Dried Beans, Meat Meal, Pea Protein Concentrate, Fish Oil, Mixed feed Nuts, Canola Oil

      These cat food are under $2 / lb.
      Cat food 1: Ground Yellow Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Beef Tallow (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Animal Digest, Calcium Carbonate, Turkey By-Product Meal, Salmon Meal, Ocean Fish Meal
      Cat food 2: Salmon, salmon meal, catfish meal, oat groats, whole peas, catfish oil, whole herring, whole green lentils, whole chickpeas, catfish
      Cat food 3: Salmon, Rice Flour, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Beef Fat Naturally Preserved With Mixed-Tocopherols, Soybean Meal, Whole Grain Corn, Wheat Flour, Liver Flavor

      Purina Game Fish feed, under $2 / lb:
      Fish Meal, Poultry By-Product Meal, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Corn, Wheat Flour, Fish Oil (preserved with Ethoxyquin), Blood Meal Ring Dried, Wheat Middlings, Lecithin

      I guess the question is, 1) Is wheat necessary and 2) is ground corn processed enough to be easily digestible?

      incidentally: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/archi...p/t-81078.html
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/archi.../t-173147.html
      Last edited by fly4koi; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:53 AM.

    20. #20
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      Corn is one item that was negative market targeted by brands trying to get more market share or justify high prices. The negative statements were never based on actual carp fish digestibility & performance testing by the companies doing the negative advertising. Very few brands do trials with real fish and actually do lab verified digestibility testing. Purina and Ziegler are two that actually do real world testing.

      100% corn and corn byproducts, such as whats left from brewing, are used. To increase digestion in fish food it is finely ground and heat processed.

      How often have you heard the comparison of kernals of corn decorating floaters in the toilet directly applied to digestibility in pet food?🤣🤣🤣
      Last edited by BWG; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:42 PM.

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