• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 20 of 26

    Thread: Concrete-Vs- Liner Pond | Which is best?

    1. #1
      Tanyaclick is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2023
      Location
      Atascadero, CA
      Posts
      73

      Concrete-Vs- Liner Pond | Which is best?

      There seems to be pros and cons to both liner and concrete.
      The main positives I see with concrete is the pond lighting, less likely to have a leak, and if it does- easier to find, smooth surface, no liner wrinkles, easier to clean. It seems like it would be easier to do the waterfall too.

      One of the hang-ups I'm having on breaking ground is what style of waterfall we want. We had finally settled on these big beautiful 1 ton moss boulders but then I was talking to a Pond guy with 30 years experience and he said most Pond leaks are in the waterfall and the moss could cause redirection over time etc etc so now I'm scared away from that idea. And I also can't fathom how the pond wouldn't just crumble with 1 ton boulders on the edge. Now I'm thinking I should do something more contemporary rather than gorgeous rocks. Or do a stream with little pools that drop a foot to the next and the next.

      What have you all found to be most successful and long lasting?

      What do you wish you knew then that you know now?

      Thanks guys and gals

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #2
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      3,813
      Contrary to popular belief, Gunite pool or pond concrete shells do not leak.

      Swimming pools are internally plastered with white cement and marble dust to

      protect the kids skin on their toes from being worn down.

      Add a colored oxide to the white plaster like charcoal and the pond walls and bottom

      will have algae rooting in the hair line cracks in no time.

      Algae a food supplement for the fish.

      Pond internal lights show up the suspension hanging in the water.

      Give them a clear miss. A waste of money.

      High, strategically placed surface lights around the pond show up the fishes colors

      and patterns very well.

      Koi colors and patterns are meant to be appreciated from above.

      Concrete is for those with the real Koi bug,and intend living in the house for a

      long,long time.

      Or can see the wood for the trees.

      Endless queries about eating the liner ponds on forums.

      The plastic ripples or folds are the hide outs in the mulm for the bad bacteria.

      The swimming fishes tails keep smooth as babies bottom pool bottoms clean as a

      whistle.

      No zig zag wall shapes.

      Generally affects the rotating water mass to keep your skimmer busy cleaning the

      surface of dust and debris.

      Rounded corners a rounded cornice bottoms
      Last edited by coolwon; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:49 AM.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    3. #3
      Tanyaclick is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2023
      Location
      Atascadero, CA
      Posts
      73
      Thanks for the input. Sounds like you are in favor of the concrete. We aren't going to do plaster. We're going to paint a membrane inside instead.

    4. #4
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      3,813
      Membranes can be a headache.

      I will say no more.

      Maybe read all about them here.

      All the best.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    5. #5
      EmeraldDragon's Avatar
      EmeraldDragon is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2021
      Location
      Vancouver, WA
      Posts
      970
      Both have pros and cons and yes concrete will last you a very long time when you have it done right.

      Things to consider if you are going for the concrete pond.

      Concrete Pond Advantage:
      "Concrete ponds, if properly constructed, can last a lifetime. In addition, they can be constructed with vertical walls to increase the ratio of gallonage to surface area."

      Congrete Pond Disavantage:
      "Other Key Considerations: Concrete ponds have no earth serving as a buffer, which means pH levels, Ammonia levels, etc, are likely to spikes easily compared to earthen ponds. Because of this, concrete ponds are more difficult to manage, and more costly to manage, and turn to use even more water than earthen ponds."
      "It requires constant and regular reinforcement to avoid the risk of getting cracks. It can easily split and rupture under extreme cold weather conditions and low temperatures."

      One more thing to consider if you are going for Concrete Pond is, whether you are in the earthquake bounds area. That would be very bad for your pond if the earthquake hits.

    6. #6
      Tanyaclick is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2023
      Location
      Atascadero, CA
      Posts
      73
      What do you recommend? Plaster?

    7. #7
      Tanyaclick is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2023
      Location
      Atascadero, CA
      Posts
      73
      I would do concrete or liner. How does a liner pond change the Ammonia etc

    8. #8
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      3,813
      I missed something here!

      Where does this mud pond business fit in?

      Are you digging a big mud pond on the farm, something like they grow on fish in Japan.

      The biological filtration takes care of the ammonia and nitrite.

      The plastic liner method is just a cheap way of installing a fish pond.

      Got the right bugs that eat plastic in your area. they eat holes in your plastic liner.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    9. #9
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      3,813
      Snow and ice could be problem with a concrete pond.

      I live at the coast where our temperatures don't go below about 9 degrees C.

      If I had to put up with snow and ice, Koi fish would be the very last thing I would make a

      hobby of.

      Marine fish knock the spots off Koi with their colors and patterns.

      Sit in front of the fire and watch TV, and the odd glance to see how the marines are are fairing.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    10. #10
      Tanyaclick is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2023
      Location
      Atascadero, CA
      Posts
      73
      I don't have space for an indoor aquarium unfortunately

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    11. #11
      Tanyaclick is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2023
      Location
      Atascadero, CA
      Posts
      73
      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      I missed something here!

      Where does this mud pond business fit in?

      Are you digging a big mud pond on the farm, something like they grow on fish in Japan.

      The biological filtration takes care of the ammonia and nitrite.

      The plastic liner method is just a cheap way of installing a fish pond.

      Got the right bugs that eat plastic in your area. they eat holes in your plastic liner.
      Definitely not looking to do a mud pond lol. I'm not sure if the liner is really going to save that much in the long run.. and I want it to be as worry free as possible.
      Last edited by Tanyaclick; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:03 AM.

    12. #12
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      3,813
      Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldDragon View Post
      Both have pros and cons and yes concrete will last you a very long time when you have it done right.

      Things to consider if you are going for the concrete pond.

      Concrete Pond Advantage:
      "Concrete ponds, if properly constructed, can last a lifetime. In addition, they can be constructed with vertical walls to increase the ratio of gallonage to surface area."

      Congrete Pond Disavantage:
      "Other Key Considerations: Concrete ponds have no earth serving as a buffer, which means pH levels, Ammonia levels, etc, are likely to spikes easily compared to earthen ponds. Because of this, concrete ponds are more difficult to manage, and more costly to manage, and turn to use even more water than earthen ponds."
      "It requires constant and regular reinforcement to avoid the risk of getting cracks. It can easily split and rupture under extreme cold weather conditions and low temperatures."

      One more thing to consider if you are going for Concrete Pond is, whether you are in the earthquake bounds area. That would be very bad for your pond if the earthquake hits.

      This might help to show you with the mud,and concrete pond.

      Most of this is confusing me.

      Never mind it is a very confusing hobby to most people,ponds,filters

      fish appreciation,JAPANESE terms,parasites,medication
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    13. #13
      Grumpy is offline Senior Member
      is Retired with SO much yet to
      learn
       
      Feeling:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2016
      Location
      Central Oregon Coast
      Posts
      759
      When properly built, a concrete pond will last a long time. However, it will also be very expensive unless you have the experience sufficient to construct it yourself. A liner pond can have a good life if you are not attacked by certain insects. It is a question mostly of cost, and how long you expect to stay in your house.

      My ferrocement pond is very easy to maintain so far (6 years) by keep the Kh stable with baking soda. Research ferrocement boats. But I could never have justified the expense if I had hired someone to build it.

      There have been many liner ponds on this forum with large boulder edges, but a strong concrete collar and suitable soil beneath is the key when using heavy rock edges. I agree the waterfall to stream to pond joints are likely leak locations, again careful attention to detail is required at those points.

      Good Luck, keep us posted on your progress.

    14. #14
      Tanyaclick is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2023
      Location
      Atascadero, CA
      Posts
      73
      Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
      When properly built, a concrete pond will last a long time. However, it will also be very expensive unless you have the experience sufficient to construct it yourself. A liner pond can have a good life if you are not attacked by certain insects. It is a question mostly of cost, and how long you expect to stay in your house.

      My ferrocement pond is very easy to maintain so far (6 years) by keep the Kh stable with baking soda. Research ferrocement boats. But I could never have justified the expense if I had hired someone to build it.

      There have been many liner ponds on this forum with large boulder edges, but a strong concrete collar and suitable soil beneath is the key when using heavy rock edges. I agree the waterfall to stream to pond joints are likely leak locations, again careful attention to detail is required at those points.

      Good Luck, keep us posted on your progress.
      We do plan to stay here forever. I know it will cost more. But I'm thinking "buy once, cry once." And "the most expensive pond you'll ever build is the one you have to replace."

    15. #15
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      3,813
      Follow the swimming pool builders around,you will see how its done.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    16. #16
      Tanyaclick is offline Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2023
      Location
      Atascadero, CA
      Posts
      73
      That's who we're looking at to assist.

    17. #17
      EmeraldDragon's Avatar
      EmeraldDragon is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2021
      Location
      Vancouver, WA
      Posts
      970
      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      I missed something here!

      Where does this mud pond business fit in?

      Are you digging a big mud pond on the farm, something like they grow on fish in Japan.

      The biological filtration takes care of the ammonia and nitrite.

      The plastic liner method is just a cheap way of installing a fish pond.

      Got the right bugs that eat plastic in your area. they eat holes in your plastic liner.
      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      This might help to show you with the mud,and concrete pond.

      Most of this is confusing me.

      Never mind it is a very confusing hobby to most people,ponds,filters

      fish appreciation,JAPANESE terms,parasites,medication
      LOL! I never said anything about "Mud Pond", this is from site pieces of information that state the advantages and disadvantages of Concrete ponds.

    18. #18
      EmeraldDragon's Avatar
      EmeraldDragon is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2021
      Location
      Vancouver, WA
      Posts
      970
      Follow https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...san-Dream-Pond This might be what you are after. But OCKoiFan built (converted) it from a Swimming Pool.

      @Tanyaclick - If you plan to stay at this place forever like you said, a concrete pond is a good idea.

    19. #19
      BWG is offline Senior Member
      is 999875421235621456478541.1
       
      Feeling:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Location
      ZONE 5
      Posts
      3,852
      Typically it's a cost and how permanent of a pond one wants decision. Membrane coating over cement have been hit or miss through the years. Many failures posted on this site. I've often wondered if it was actual coating failure or the prep and application wasn't done correctly. Xypex slurry with dye of choice coated on the fresh concrete appears to be solution many have done. I've never heard of a failure yet and the future crack waterproofing properties are desirable.

      Name:  SmartSelect_20240422_210832_Chrome.jpg
Views: 72
Size:  62.2 KB
      Last edited by BWG; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:09 PM.

    20. #20
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      3,813
      Quote Originally Posted by emeralddragon View Post
      lol! I never said anything about "mud pond", this is from site pieces of information that state the advantages and disadvantages of concrete ponds.


      Post # 5

      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •