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  • Results 1 to 10 of 10

    Thread: question about Bottom drain

    1. #1
      JMorris271's Avatar
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      question about Bottom drain

      Hello all
      I'm not a newbie here but its been a while.
      I'm in charted territory about my new project so here goes
      I am putting in a relatively small goldfish pond about 800 gals.
      Using a hard shell, I am not sure how to approach the bottom drain thing. What's the best way to put a 3in. drain in a hard shell or rather can it be done and work.
      I would like to is an internal pump and going to a pressure filter. Where would I tie the bottom drain line.
      Thanks.

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    2. #2
      Grumpy is offline Senior Member
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      I have a couple of rubber-maid hard shell "ponds" used mostly as holding tanks and water reservoirs. That material is very sturdy and will accept normal flange fittings so I think a 3" flange fitting would work fine thru the sidewall as long as the hole was accurately cut. The floor of those tanks have reinforcing ribs that would make it difficult to make a large hole for a conventional bottom drain.

      With other hard shells that may be smooth enough to accept a conventional bottom drain I assume one of the biggest problems is the pipe installation. The pipe would need to be attached to the liner before the liner is dropped into the hole. If your pond liner is fiberglass I think the piping could be made part of the shell using more fiberglass material. If the hard shell is a poly material it seems possible to attach the pipe to the bottom of the shell with pipe clamps attached with an adhesive. The pond shell producer may have a suggested adhesive.

      Attaching a bottom drain made for rubber liner would seem possible in a smooth hard shell as long as you used plenty of sealant and longer stainless screws.

      If the drain attachment to the bottom of the shell is successful, the backfill of the hole needs to be addressed. If the soil conditions are correct you could lay down a 4" thick layer of sand and preform the pipe bed, then finish bedding the shell by flooding the sand bed while keeping the shell heavy with water. You want to have good support of the pond liner as well as the piping to prevent issues later.

      A retro bottom drain laying on the floor of the shell would be so much easier with the pipe exposed on the inside of the pond up the side and over the edge to the pump. A retro drain on the inside of the pond usually uses an external pump with a priming pot & leaf basket which can feed your pressure filter. I don't know what you mean with internal pump?

      An example of a retro bottom drain with aerator:

      https://cascade-pond-supply.com/Drea...Air-p-998.html

      I think you could cover the inside drain pipe and air line with fiberglass such that it would eliminate some of the debris that would accumulate under the exposed pipe on the floor and mostly disappear as algae takes over.
      Last edited by Grumpy; 1 Week Ago at 12:58 PM.

    3. #3
      *Ci*'s Avatar
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      One of my ponds was a 500g fibreglass ex-fish farm shell that already had a bottom drain incorporated. As Grumpy says, the hardest part is digging the hole level and having the dug out channels for the drain and pipe in the exact locations you need them - a sand bed is good for levelling, but only if it is dry and then it’s hard to dig the channels.
      My tank was thick and heavy enough to stay rigid even though I know there were gaps underneath, but the whole pond was skewed a bit after filling with water (one corner higher than the opposite corner). I left it like that for 6 years and it was fine but hard to put a level coping edge on it, to say the least!

      Another small issue is that any bottom drain fittings on a solid shell will have a small lip, so a bit less effective than a flush bottom drain.

      I replaced that 500g pond with my current aluminum tank (2500g) and because it is so much bigger and even harder to manoeuvre, I opted for a retro drain through the pond wall, above ground, so no need to keep a prime by going up and over the edge. I used uniseals and it looks sort of like this inside the pond:

      Name:  IMG_2177_Original.jpg
Views: 54
Size:  31.4 KB

      These are 3” pipes joining together outside the pond to a 4” then going to a settling chamber.
      The cross piece pipe on the bottom has 1/2” holes drilled all along facing down and the whole thing rests on the bottom using only the edge of the fittings (tee’s and end caps) to suspend it above the pond bottom, so like 1/8 to 1/4” gap.

      My returns are similar and I remembered to take a picture of them before filling!

      Name:  IMG_0633_Original.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  135.7 KB


      And here is a link to my build for inspiration:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...light=aluminum
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      Ci


    4. #4
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      What is the new shell made of?
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    5. #5
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      It's the standard 260 gal hard shell that HD sells. This bottom drain will be used for doing weekly water changes and I hope it will remove most scum that may have settled. Not a continuous drain to a filter. Discharge by gravity only with a T valve .
      Last edited by JMorris271; 5 Days Ago at 10:57 AM.

    6. #6
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      Better off with a liner and true bottom drain in my opinion
      M.Nguyen


    7. #7
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      You can get a 4” bottom drain on eBay for less than $100 shipped and reduce to 2” if you want
      Shipped from the UK
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      M.Nguyen


    8. #8
      *Ci*'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by JMorris271 View Post

      I am putting in a relatively small goldfish pond about 800 gals.
      So this project has gotten much smaller? If it is a 800g tank, I would stand by my advice. For a 230 gallon shell that you are only going to open a valve to drain once a week, I would probably just put a pipe into the side near the bottom. Or get a stock tank - many of them have drain plug installed already that you could attach a hose or pipe and valve onto.

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    9. #9
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      You would be better off using a piece of swimming pool vacuum hose with attachments to a pump, which would allow you to move the pickup end to where the accumulated debris is. The fixed drain used weekly or thereabouts will only cause problems, one of which is suction, and the other is placement for best operation.
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    10. #10
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by *Ci* View Post
      One of my ponds was a 500g fibreglass ex-fish farm shell that already had a bottom drain incorporated. As Grumpy says, the hardest part is digging the hole level and having the dug out channels for the drain and pipe in the exact locations you need them - a sand bed is good for levelling, but only if it is dry and then it’s hard to dig the channels.
      My tank was thick and heavy enough to stay rigid even though I know there were gaps underneath, but the whole pond was skewed a bit after filling with water (one corner higher than the opposite corner). I left it like that for 6 years and it was fine but hard to put a level coping edge on it, to say the least!

      Another small issue is that any bottom drain fittings on a solid shell will have a small lip, so a bit less effective than a flush bottom drain.

      I replaced that 500g pond with my current aluminum tank (2500g) and because it is so much bigger and even harder to manoeuvre, I opted for a retro drain through the pond wall, above ground, so no need to keep a prime by going up and over the edge. I used uniseals and it looks sort of like this inside the pond:

      Name:  IMG_2177_Original.jpg
Views: 54
Size:  31.4 KB

      These are 3” pipes joining together outside the pond to a 4” then going to a settling chamber.
      The cross piece pipe on the bottom has 1/2” holes drilled all along facing down and the whole thing rests on the bottom using only the edge of the fittings (tee’s and end caps) to suspend it above the pond bottom, so like 1/8 to 1/4” gap.

      My returns are similar and I remembered to take a picture of them before filling!

      Name:  IMG_0633_Original.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  135.7 KB


      And here is a link to my build for inspiration:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...light=aluminum
      Oh man that's a beautiful setup, I have a flat bottom pond and the bottom drains are off to one side and they don't suck out the poop efficiently. I actually tried to extend the drain with PVC pipe drilled with holes similar to what you have done here, but it just doesn't really have enough suction to pick up the crap.

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