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    Thread: Does anybody have any idea what this is and how to help?!!

    1. #1
      Taraha858 is offline Junior Member
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      Does anybody have any idea what this is and how to help?!!

      Ok, so Iím brand new to this forum and pretty clueless on how to check post and replies until now..I think

      A few weeks ago I posted on here saying I think my koi fish has fluke?

      My koi pond is about 390 gallon (thought it was 300 gallon at first).

      Well a few weeks ago all my koi fish were jumping, scratching, and hiding in the corner. I assumed they had some sort of parasite so I went to my local aquarium store and asked for help. The nice gentlemen directed me to a product called Minnfin. I did a total of 5 treatments all within 24 hours apart ( 2 treatments more than I should, but they said it was no harm). Noticed the jumping and scratching stopped, but then all the koiís were still hiding in the corner and barley swimming.. Half of my koi fish are black, so they are extremely hard to see. I shined a flashed light on them at night and noticed half of them had horrible ich, scale were filmy white, eyes were cloudy, and one koi had really bad fin rot (I thought the Minnfin would have helped with all of these). Went back to the aquarium store and another gentlemen told me to try out Nitrofuracin Green. Did a total of 3 treatments a week apart and this medication pretty much saved my whole pond!!! Koi fish are now swimming happily and pretty much back to normal. These koiís are all over 10 years by the way.

      My question is, the koi fish with the worst fin rot developed something I have never see, and I tried searching on google and found nothing! Does anyone know what in the world this is???? The fungal and fin rot is no longer on its fins, but the tail (and only the tail) is like a pinecone!!!! I donít know what to do to help it. The koi is swimming and seems happy. Will this pinecone tail go away on its own? Iím not sure how clear the photos are.. any help will be greatly appreciated!!!

      Iíve been testing the water weekly and everything has been in normal limits. What can this be?!!
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      The tail has a serious bacterial infection, resulting in symptoms of dropsy, limited to the tail for now. I would catch the fish and do a topical treatment with Tricide Neo, which you can find on the internet, but not at very many shops. It is a triple antibiotic and can be applied by any of several methods. I do not like the instructions that come with the product as it wastes too much of the expensive product. Some use it by direct application to the wound area, dry on a q-tip, and it seems to work well that way. I have somewhat followed manufacturers instructions in mixing about 1/4 of the 1 gallon size packet with a gallon of distilled water and used a spray bottle to keep the fish wetted for the time specified on the packet. Another treatment that, though not as effective, works for some cases is just painting the area with iodine. No matter the treatment method, other than the full mix in a plastic bag large enough for the fish and product, will require the fish be sedated.

      See Parts 11 and 19 in https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ive-Discussion
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      Taraha858 is offline Junior Member
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      Red face

      Quote Originally Posted by richtoybox View Post
      The tail has a serious bacterial infection, resulting in symptoms of dropsy, limited to the tail for now. I would catch the fish and do a topical treatment with Tricide Neo, which you can find on the internet, but not at very many shops. It is a triple antibiotic and can be applied by any of several methods. I do not like the instructions that come with the product as it wastes too much of the expensive product. Some use it by direct application to the wound area, dry on a q-tip, and it seems to work well that way. I have somewhat followed manufacturers instructions in mixing about 1/4 of the 1 gallon size packet with a gallon of distilled water and used a spray bottle to keep the fish wetted for the time specified on the packet. Another treatment that, though not as effective, works for some cases is just painting the area with iodine. No matter the treatment method, other than the full mix in a plastic bag large enough for the fish and product, will require the fish be sedated.

      See Parts 11 and 19 in https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ive-Discussion
      WOW!!! Thank you so much for this information!! I went ahead and ordered Tricide Neo and expedited the order, so hoping to get it early next week. Iíve never sedated a koi fish before, so need to start watching some YouTube videos so I can do it correctly.

      The thought of dropsy did cross my mind, but I have never seen dropsy starting off from the tail, which is why I brushed that idea off. The instructions below is a bit confusing, but Iíll check out the forum that you mentioned. Thank you again!!!!

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      Quote Originally Posted by richtoybox View Post
      The tail has a serious bacterial infection, resulting in symptoms of dropsy, limited to the tail for now. I would catch the fish and do a topical treatment with Tricide Neo, which you can find on the internet, but not at very many shops. It is a triple antibiotic and can be applied by any of several methods. I do not like the instructions that come with the product as it wastes too much of the expensive product. Some use it by direct application to the wound area, dry on a q-tip, and it seems to work well that way. I have somewhat followed manufacturers instructions in mixing about 1/4 of the 1 gallon size packet with a gallon of distilled water and used a spray bottle to keep the fish wetted for the time specified on the packet. Another treatment that, though not as effective, works for some cases is just painting the area with iodine. No matter the treatment method, other than the full mix in a plastic bag large enough for the fish and product, will require the fish be sedated.

      See Parts 11 and 19 in https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ive-Discussion
      I do have some questions. You said that no matter the treatment method, the koi will need to be sedated. I watched a few YouTube videos on how to sedate a koi. Now once sedated and removed from the water, will it be ok to take a brush (paint brush) and just brush the Tricide Neo powder on its tail? How long will I leave the powder on for before setting the koi back into the wate?. Also, how many treatments will this take?

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      fly4koi is online now Senior Member
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      Treat every day or every other day for a week. You can use q-tip to rub the powder on, 5-7 minutes, personally I gave it a quick rinse off before return to pond (I use spray method)

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      Quote Originally Posted by richtoybox View Post
      The tail has a serious bacterial infection, resulting in symptoms of dropsy, limited to the tail for now. I would catch the fish and do a topical treatment with Tricide Neo, which you can find on the internet, but not at very many shops.
      See Parts 11 and 19 in https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...ive-Discussion
      Would Baytril work better in this case? Thanks.

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      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      Treat every day or every other day for a week. You can use q-tip to rub the powder on, 5-7 minutes, personally I gave it a quick rinse off before return to pond (I use spray method)
      Will the koi fish need to be sedated for every treatment? Any recommendation on what I should use for sedation? First timer hereÖ so pretty nervous about this.

    8. #8
      fly4koi is online now Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Taraha858 View Post
      Will the koi fish need to be sedated for every treatment? Any recommendation on what I should use for sedation? First timer here… so pretty nervous about this.
      Yes, you want to avoid stressing the fish. Clove oil (from your GMC/herb store) works wonders for sedation, 7-10 drops in your tote, mix well, when fish is sedated it'll stop flipping and roll on its side. When return to pond, use your net to guide the fish so that water flush its gill so help it wake up faster. Cover the head with wet towel to help calming it down.

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      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      Yes, you want to avoid stressing the fish. Clove oil (from your GMC/herb store) works wonders for sedation, 7-10 drops in your tote, mix well, when fish is sedated it'll stop flipping and roll on its side. When return to pond, use your net to guide the fish so that water flush its gill so help it wake up faster. Cover the head with wet towel to help calming it down.
      Thank you!! I just so happen to have clove oil at home (ordered it a few days ago). I assume this should be OK?

      Also, 7-10 drops in how many gallon of water? And how long will the koi be sedated for? I saw on YouTube that the koi shouldnít be out of the water for longer than 10 minutes. So as soon as I see the koi rolling on its side, scoop it out and place it on a towel. Wet a paper napkin to cover the part Iím not working on. Then apply the powder on its fin and let it sit out of the water for about 7 minutes or so. Then gently place it back into the water guiding it while it slowly wakes up? Repeat this everyday for 7 days?
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      fly4koi is online now Senior Member
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      Richard's link has that information.

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      Be sure to rinse the fish before placing it back in its water. This antibiotic will kill the good bacteria in the filters.
      Zone 7 A/B
      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

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      Dropsy is due to kidney or liver damage. And affects the entire koi with raised scales. You have an infection going on and I hope the tricide neo works. But it might not depending if its an internal problem or not. It is not all that uncommon for a koi to get an infection in the tail tube. However it can get worse quickly and kill the fish. Last time someone had an issue of swollen tail tube on KP. He took it to a vet. Was given injectables to use to lower swelling and another for bacteria issue. However his was much worse than your case.

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      Just a note on clove oil ... I once had a koi that was very slow to wake up after sedation (for a different problem). I held his head right where the waterfall pours in for a long time, thinking sure he was a gonner. But eventually, he came around and was fine.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Just a note on clove oil ... I once had a koi that was very slow to wake up after sedation (for a different problem). I held his head right where the waterfall pours in for a long time, thinking sure he was a gonner. But eventually, he came around and was fine.
      Yes clove oil can create problems coming out of the sedative. Winter time you have to add a little more and summer less. So basically the warmer the water the less is required.

      Oil of clove kind of lets you know the condition of your koi. The sicker it is. The quicker it well go under and harder to revive.

      If a koi is really ill. Sometimes they do not revive.

      MS222 would be a better option than clove oil but does create the same conditions as oil of clove.

      Personally I would have the name brand baytril (Enrofloxacin) at hand. It almost always works.
      Last edited by kdh; 02-24-2024 at 08:38 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      Richard's link has that information.
      Thank you!! I found the information!

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      Got it. Thank you!!

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      Quote Originally Posted by richtoybox View Post
      Be sure to rinse the fish before placing it back in its water. This antibiotic will kill the good bacteria in the filters.
      Got it. Thank you!

    18. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Dropsy is due to kidney or liver damage. And affects the entire koi with raised scales. You have an infection going on and I hope the tricide neo works. But it might not depending if its an internal problem or not. It is not all that uncommon for a koi to get an infection in the tail tube. However it can get worse quickly and kill the fish. Last time someone had an issue of swollen tail tube on KP. He took it to a vet. Was given injectables to use to lower swelling and another for bacteria issue. However his was much worse than your case.
      Hoping the tricide neo will work! Ill get to work immediately as soon as the item arrives

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      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      Yes clove oil can create problems coming out of the sedative. Winter time you have to add a little more and summer less. So basically the warmer the water the less is required.

      Oil of clove kind of lets you know the condition of your koi. The sicker it is. The quicker it well go under and harder to revive.

      If a koi is really ill. Sometimes they do not revive.

      MS222 would be a better option than clove oil but does create the same conditions as oil of clove.

      Personally I would have the name brand baytril (Enrofloxacin) at hand. It almost always works.
      baytril is an injectable for koi? A vet will need to prescribe this?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Taraha858 View Post
      baytril is an injectable for koi? A vet will need to prescribe this?
      Correct. But it is not uncommon to show the issue of the koi and knowing how to use it opens the door to get it. There are sights that sell it on the internet but I have never tried that.

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