2023 Hariwake, Beni Kikokuryu, Kujaku spawn

[Matt24]

Thats a big koi. Would love to see a pic of it. Am sure others would also. THanks

She was 6" when I got her. [She has nothing to do with this spawn, other than variety.]

[Orlando]

Well done Matt, good husbandry always excel

[Matt24]

Hope this color loss stops soon, but looks like the pattern is shrinking ...

Late Sept 2023


Late March 2024


Mid-June 2024


Late June 2024 - In just a couple of weeks, some noticeable pattern loss ...

[Matt24]

I removed this one due to head shape and flaring gills. It happens.

But what I want you to notice about this development is the major color change. Also there was some reduction in pattern on the face. Some of my yellow ones have shifted a little to yellow-orange, and some have been orange from pretty early on. I think this one had by far the biggest color shift.

Late Sept 2023


Late March 2024


Late June 2024

[Orlando]

I find it interesting how the beni shifted in tone the loss of the pattern wasn't that negative in my opinion I could live with it but I see what you mean about the head shape. Am wondering do your culls go to places where you could follow future development?

[Matt24]

Usually not, though I sometimes keep a couple around for quite a while to watch development after realizing that I won't be keeping them long term. When I have some that are good enough for others to want, the people who will take them are rather far away and may either sell them or put them in big private ponds. I used to give some to a fellow nearby, but he has become too old to keep up his pond. Some garden centers and pet shops will take them.

[Matt24]

I found one more of the one-year-old runts that had somehow remained hidden in the tub I had my kohaku spawn in. Apparently it grew from ~1.5" to 3.5" with the extra kohaku protien the last couple of months. I think it is a beni ginga, like the two in the last two pictures in post #97. [Like the beni kikokuryu, except fully scaled instead of Doitsu.] It's hard to tell from the angle and lighting, but the yellow pattern goes down the length of the koi, and is more visible on the lower half, below the sumi field. It may be interesting to see how the color and the sumi fight it out over time.

[Matt24]

The numbers I have are too small to be a statistically significant sampling. So I don't know if this is just a weird bit of data or if there is a biological reason for this but ...

The 3 that have the fully scaled matsuba scale type (two gin matsuba and a kujaku), happen to be among the 5 largest from this spawn, 8" to 10".

The 3 beni ginga were runts that have just recently started growing some and are among the smallest 3.5" to 5.5".

When I spawned these same oyagoi in 2021, I did not see this. Maybe it was because very few of those I kept past the first year were fully scaled. I spawned these same oyagoi in 2012 and had a few of different scale types that I kept a few years, but I don't recall there being very substantial difference in sizes.

[Matt24]

In addition to a regular koi spawn, I tried an experiment with this 2023 group. Normally, I cull the very little ones that don't seem make much growth progress at all. But this year, I decided to try to let a few of the better looking tiny ones grow out for a few months longer to see if they ever turn the corner or just never seem to grow up. By late summer of last year, there were about 100 of these, but after removing deformities etc, there were about 7 that I kept over the winter.

Even though I take a lot of photos, given as much as little koi can change in appearance, it was challenging to keep track of who is who. I have enough confidence to feel good about my overall conclusion, but recognize there could be a goof or two in the results.

These were around 1.5" in October, but all managed to get to at least 3" at least by mid-summer in their second year.

These 4 were the least impressive from a growth perspective:

• Three 3" ones culled in late spring due to poor body confirmation.
• The 3" hariwake pictured below grew from ~1.5" in October (third photo of post #75), but is still very skinny. Its slightly smaller right pectoral fin seems to have improved some. With a pattern like it has, I'll hang on to it a while and see if it'll thicken up.

There are 3 that did significantly better from a growth perspective. These are of course not good sizes, but are a substantial improvement over their sizes last fall:

• The 4" Beni Ginga pictured below is the same one in post #107, that grew from ~1.5" in October. Amazing how much lighter this one looks from the side compared to from overhead.
• The Beni Ginga at the end of post #97 was 4.5" a month ago and has been growing well over the last month.
• A fully scaled yellow and white one with a bit of sumi on the back was 4" as of a month ago and has been growing well over the last month. Unfortunately, its tail is starting to look crooked.

If no deformities appear and the Lord wills it, I will watch the two little Beni Ginga and the skinny little hariwake for quite a while longer and should learn more about their growth. For now my thinking is that if you want to grow out tiny koi that you think are otherwise pretty, it may be worth your while, if you don't mind some of your koi being kind of small. Time will tell, but I doubt any of these will ever make it to anything like two feet. I realize some koi keepers want that, so patience with runts is not for everybody.

[Matt24]

Reduced the numbers a little further yesterday. This group ranges from 8" - 14", except for the three runts.



Some close-ups of some of the better ones:

[Orlando]

Matt that's a nice looking lady on that 5th picture (kujaku). The way I try to look at it to keep it simple is big one's, middle of the pack and the runts. This is the first year I've had tosai hit the 6" mark at the 4 and a half months of growth mark now let's look at the smaller side of the spectrum them little tiny ones that we know they ain't going to grow then you have the middle of the pack to me those are the ones I watch very carefully I feel those are the ones with better expectations just my opinion So we are kinda seeing the same even thou our fish are different ages. Now that these overhere have a decent amount of water let's see what happens with the middle of the pack and the smaller one's.

[Matt24]

When I use different varieties in a spawn and with more than one male, it can sometimes be a puzzle to figure out the variety of a young koi and who's the daddy? If you look at the males in post #1, you can see that the beni kikokuryu and the Doitsu kujaku both have sumi in the scales. So I can't go by that.

With this young one below, I can see the dusting of sumi in the unscaled area of the sides. I forget the word for it, but it's that sumi that comes from the kikokuryu genetics. So I know this one comes from my beni kikokuryu.



For quite a while, I thought this second one was also from the beni kikokuryu because it has such a large dark area when viewed from above. But on closer examination, I see that the sumi is only in the scales and not on the bare skin of the sides. The extra thick double row of dark scales down the back just made it seem like it had some sumi on the sides. But now I think this one is from the Doitsu kujaku. Also, it has a little orange in the base of the pectorals like that Doitsu kujaku male. So I think these two came from different males.

[Matt24]

I netted the two-year-old metallics for a close look and moved 9 of the best ones from the 1800 gallon pond to the 12,000 gallon pond with the adults. I'm pretty pleased with this group overall. A couple were 9" and the other 7 were 11" - 15". I plan to post their photos here soon.

But first here is an update on the development of the 3 runts that I decided to be extra patient with in this spawn. I doubt they will ever be two-footers, but I wonder if they'll ever grow up to be 14" or 18" range. I plan to keep them in the 1800 gallon pond a good bit longer and let them grow some more. They have all grown a some and thickened up their thin frames considerably.

First the beni ginga, which I think is what a fully scaled version of a beni kikokuryu is called. This one is up to 7" and has grown the most of these three.


Next the Doitsu platinum that is now 6". It has something of a purple-bluish undertone to the skin on each side, which you can kind of see in the second photo. Is that normal for small Doitsu platinums?


Then the smallest hariwake that is now 4.5".

[Coldspringsfarm]

It looks pinkish in the picture. Is it possible just that the skin has not thickened up yet?

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[Matt24]

It looks pinkish in the picture. Is it possible just that the skin has not thickened up yet?

I wondered about that, if it was thin skin. I'll try calling him a "runt" and see if he seems upset.

[Matt24]

I netted the two-year-old metallics for a close look and moved 9 of the best ones from the 1800 gallon pond to the 12,000 gallon pond with the adults. ...

Here are the larger ones that I moved to the 12,000 gallon pond where the adults are. From touching the sides of the gill plates, I figure three gritty ones are male. The other six seemed smooth. So my guess on those is female, but I know sometimes males may not be very gritty.

Female beni kikokuryu 13" (linear scaled)


Female Doitsu yamabuki 12" (leather)


Female Doitsu yamabuki hariwake 11" (leather)


Female kujaku 13"


Male Doitsu kujaku 9" (leather)


Female kikokuryu 9" (leather)


Female 14" (linear scaled). Not sure what to call this variety. It's like a kikokuryu except gold instead of silver.


These last two fully scaled males, 15" and 13", would be gin matsuba, except that they have some yellow on the sides. The smaller one (last two photos) has darker scalation.

[Coldspringsfarm]

I think my favorite is the "Female Doitsu yamabuki hariwake 11" (leather)", but I clearly have a bias towards doitsu.. About to upload something to my Kosui thread for you to look at. I will ask my question there.

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[Orlando]

Here are the larger ones that I moved to the 12,000 gallon pond where the adults are. From touching the sides of the gill plates, I figure three gritty ones are male. The other six seemed smooth. So my guess on those is female, but I know sometimes males may not be very gritty.

Female beni kikokuryu 13" (linear scaled)


Female Doitsu yamabuki 12" (leather)


Female Doitsu yamabuki hariwake 11" (leather)


Female kujaku 13"


Male Doitsu kujaku 9" (leather)


Female kikokuryu 9" (leather)


Female 14" (linear scaled). Not sure what to call this variety. It's like a kikokuryu except gold instead of silver.


These last two fully scaled males, 15" and 13", would be gin matsuba, except that they have some yellow on the sides. The smaller one (last two photos) has darker scalation.

I really like the ki matsuba that's pretty unique.

[spkennyva]

Really nice Matt! It would be hard to select a favorite. The ki matsuba Orlando pointed out is very nice, but again, all are REALLY nice!! The Doitsu yamabuki also needs to be called out! It seems very clean with a well-defined zipper. Congrats, and thanks for posting!

[Coldspringsfarm]

We have a liner laying on top of the hen pen to give them shade and protection from rain. This 2" yellow-orange fully scaled ogon was swimming in a little puddle on top of the liner! It had rained a lot last night, and the puddle was a little less than 2' x 2' and an inch deep in the middle. As you can tell from the photos, part of the space is so shallow that its back sticks out of the water.

So how did this happen? Last Saturday, I had caught and gone through the fry removing deformities. Part of the time, I would set a dishpan of fry on top of the hen pen to look them over. This one must have jumped out of the pan into the puddle without me noticing ... and [B]stayed there for 5 full days and nights!

That's hilarious! Gives me hope that my mud pond fry have done well!

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