Angie's 2023 Showa + (Showa & Sanke) Spawn

[Angie Jones]

But just my opinion your third bucket offers the most potential if you look closely you can see some shades of brown mixed in with black the white will come later but that brown is what turns into Red or Orange down the road. Attachment 617194

That's really interesting. Yes, there is definitely brown in some of these. So much so that I wondered if there were some Ochiba in the mix. I didn't know that Showa's beni starts out brown. Oh the babies I've culled too early in the past, LOL.

[Orlando]

Well Angie, do we have an update coming up

[Longfin Lover]

Following to learn. Thank you.

[Angie Jones]

I decided to give all my benigoi and kohaku looking fry to a friend since my original plan was to cull all of them anyway. I've got about 30 or 40 black fry I'd say. The largest few are probably 2"-2 ¼" or so now. It's not a great picture, but this was taken a few days ago when I pulled them up to take a look at them. I'm surprised at how much pattern I'm seeing at this point. It seems that every time I get a good look at them, they are developing a little bit more. In the past, I've culled down to 200 or so fry by this point in the summer hoping to get 10 to keep for the next year. Out of this group, half of them look like they've got potential to let them keep growing so I'm calling this small group a success!

Well Angie, do we have an update coming up

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[Angie Jones]

I pulled up the fry, probably for the last time before winter and I'm down to about 25 that I will continue to grow out. As with every time I've done this, I've thought you really have to enjoy the process to do this, because it would be a lot easier to take $500 and buy two or three tosai that will most likely develop into something better than you can grow out anyway. I've learned that when I sell these fingerlings at our club's auction in the spring, they tend to be bought by newbies who kill them quickly after causing them to suffer due to lack of understanding that they are tasked with being water keepers so I'm not sure I'll do this again. Anyway, here are the few that I think are the best ones at this point.

[Angie Jones]

And a few that I hope some of those with more experience than me will weigh on as to whether or not to cull. . I have several like this little guy. It appears to me that either the body is pinched in behind the operculum or they are swollen. Does this correct itself with time or is this a permanent birth defect? Of separate concern with this particular fry is the wide, shortened front area of the head. This used to bother me more, but I've noticed pictures of large koi coming out of Japan sometimes have shorter faces than what I typically think of as the correct form. Any thoughts on this?

[Orlando]

Good morning Angie, the one on the bottom picture will never improve if anything the deformity will be amplified as the koi grows. From the first picture I would keep just two they have better futures.

[Angie Jones]

Good morning Angie, the one on the bottom picture will never improve if anything the deformity will be amplified as the koi grows. From the first picture I would keep just two they have better futures.

. Thanks Orlando, that's what I thought too about the deformity. I've actually never noticed it and now see it on several of the fry so perhaps its already being amplified. The bekko you noted is my favorite and I like the shiro too. What do you not like about the larger showa at the bottom? Maybe a stubby body and a head that looks like it might remain messy?

[Orlando]

At the stage those tosai are in one can look at the body confirmation, in my opinion #1 the body is to short for the size of the head #2 the back end tappers off to much making the back end to weak. Not really concerned with the pattern as it will change somewhat as the koi grows. I've learned one thing with small fish and that is about 98% of the problems and/or weaknesses they just grow with the fish they don't self correct. That's why I hear people say things like, (I don't want too cull the wrong one), (it might get better), Now all the ones I didn't mark will be nice pond grade koi in my opinion. When culling koi I go by the variety standards after I have removed all the deformities and conformation issues.

[Matt24]

And a few that I hope some of those with more experience than me will weigh on as to whether or not to cull. I have several like this little guy. It appears to me that either the body is pinched in behind the operculum or they are swollen. Does this correct itself with time or is this a permanent birth defect?

Like Orlando indicated, I would not expect that one to get better. While I don't recall seeing one just like that, I see gill deformities a lot in my fry. Gill plates that stick out from the body, or that are flared outward or curve too much inward. Often I do not notice some deformities until the koi gets larger. For example, I may clearly see deformities at 2.5" that I did not see when they were 1.5".

Of separate concern with this particular fry is the wide, shortened front area of the head. This used to bother me more, but I've noticed pictures of large koi coming out of Japan sometimes have shorter faces than what I typically think of as the correct form. Any thoughts on this?

Naturally, I prefer the shape of the majority of the quality koi coming out of Japan that have rounded faces that are not too long and pointy or too short. However, if the face is a little long or short, and the fish has other qualities I like, I can still enjoy seeing it in my pond.

[Matt24]

I pulled up the fry, probably for the last time before winter and I'm down to about 25 that I will continue to grow out. As with every time I've done this, I've thought you really have to enjoy the process to do this, because it would be a lot easier to take $500 and buy two or three tosai that will most likely develop into something better than you can grow out anyway. I've learned that when I sell these fingerlings at our club's auction in the spring, they tend to be bought by newbies who kill them quickly after causing them to suffer due to lack of understanding that they are tasked with being water keepers so I'm not sure I'll do this again. Anyway, here are the few that I think are the best ones at this point.

Thanks for posting this update Angie. My favorite is the one at 7:00 in the photo due to the face marking and shape. I might also watch the little one next to it and the larger one that Orlando pointed out. From the photo, I can't tell too much about the little one at 10:00 pointing away from the camera, but it's a maybe. I like the sumi layout on the big one, though the tail looks stubby for the big body.

[Angie Jones]

Thank you Matt and Orlando, I was hoping both of you would weigh in. Matt, the little one at 10:00 pointing away from the camera looks like it has potential to me too. It's impossible to get a good picture of all of them at once of course. Thanks again to you both!

[*Ci*]

Not sure about the body shape but the white one almost in the middle would look really neat if it retained the black tancho spot!

[Angie Jones]

I think so too, how cool would it be to have a tancho shiro?

Not sure about the body shape but the white one almost in the middle would look really neat if it retained the black tancho spot!

[Orlando]

Well, do we have a black tancho