Hundley pond retro

[Kent Wallace]

I haven't posted much in the pas couple pf weeks, been busy. I thought this one might be of some interest. It's another AS style pond that I will retrofit for a bottom drain (Aqua Art) settling tank (wave 24) UV light, additional filtration, Wave 1 1/6 hp pump. You know, just the basics that happened to be left off the original build. I'm guessing about 3000 gallons.
I love the concept of the auto fill behind the net or pad in the skimmer so it never actually reads pond level. Please someone try to defend this stuff so I can feel better.
All the wasted space around the biofiter box by mounding up sand and rocks.

[Kent Wallace]

One reason the pond isn't in worse shape is they feed the fish very little. Notice the sunken in sides and the head being the widest part of the body. One fish has a huge growth on it;s back and they all are starving. I'll set up a temporary tank and treat them in there when we remove all the rocks from the pond later. First I'm giong to do as much as possible befor I have to breach the liner so the fish will be out of the pond as little as possible.
Any guess as to what the growth is on the fish?

[Kent Wallace]

Here's the hole for the wave 24. Additional biofiltration will a 55 gallon drum sand and gravel filter with a blower. How do you clean one one of these bioboxes without any type of bottom drain. We'll fix it.

[Kent Wallace]

We mostly just got a lot of the digging and trenching out of the way first. Pool panel isn't too far for the electrical run.

[mike]

post 1 last pic

does that koi have something growing on its back?

[the duck]

Hi Kent. Love looking at your pond renos--wish you lived here. The lump on the koi looks like some kind of tumor or lymphocystis (not spelled right) As far as I know there is no treatment for either. I read an article at koivet on treating the lympho...disease with arcriflavine which is illegal here in Canada.

[Harveythekoi]

How can anyone say rocks on the bottom of a pond are nice looking.

Kent, couldn't the bio-falls box be converted to an EZR type filter? Seems large enough. Too bad they're not willing to add to the depth. Water has to get pretty warm by you.

Garrett

[mike]

garrett, the only time im tempted with rock bottoms is when i see martin de jong's pics

[majong]

garrett, the only time im tempted with rock bottoms is when i see martin de jong's pics

Thanks

[Kent Wallace]

Garrett, don't know the actual depth yet but redigging and relining would be a much greater expense. I have to make this pond functional within a budget.

[keith berland]

A few comments if I might.
First this is AS equipment many people have cheaper knock-off stuff and call it AS when its not.
I'll bet the installers are landscapers that mow lawns 3 days a week and do ponds also.Typical design where all the soil removed is piled around the bio-falls. The stone work is kind of poor needs more large rocks piles of smaller rocks look bad.Again typical design flaw with way too much shallow water and very little deep water area. If you know you want koi its not that hard to make a much larger deep water area while making small shallows for plants.
The autofill works fine if you keep the net clean its easy and simple to install not something modified and complex so I can see where Kent might not like it.
The plants look to be doing well.
A couple of things about the bio-falls first I do not see any bags of media just the mats. This is done by alot of installers the only reason they get away with it is the surface area in AS ponds.In the picture with the dirt dug out behind the bio-falls you can see a 90* fitting where the water line enters the bio-falls. This is the wrong type of fitting if you need a 90* use a long sweep fitting better flow still 2 glue joints.
The bio-falls used is called a mini-falls it is the smallest unit sold and not what I use for ponds with koi.Since its dug out just upgrade to the standard unit and add the bags of media. This simple swap will give you 4 times the bio-conversion it now has.Keep the mini-falls and put it in a goldfish watergarden thats what its for.The small bio-falls can only handle 4-5 koi my pond with one has 5 and I work my butt off keeping up with it.If you want koi upgrade to the larger unit or better yet go up to a grande bio-falls then you can have a dozen or so koi without killing yourself .
Adding a second bulkhead fitting for easy cleaning is simple Kent even owns the holesaws to do it.The new line of mini-falls come with a second bulkhead already installed you can also get a clean out option with a gate valve thats has a extended handle it looks alot like Kents custom built ones.
I have a service pump that I use to clean out the bio-falls its dirty work but I can clean a falls in 15-20 minutes. POnds with koi need 2-3 falls cleanings a year.
I think if this pond was cleaned and the bio-falls upgraded it could perform much better for about a $1,000. Look foward to seeing how you do it.

[Harveythekoi]

.........I'll bet the installers are landscapers that mow lawns 3 days a week and do ponds also........

Isn't this the real problem with AS? Don't they bring these people in and give them a weekend training class and then send them on their way? AS doesn't care as long as they use their equipment and they can turn a hefty profit.

Garrett

[keith berland]

Garrett,
Aquascape Design Inc. is not the enemy many want them to be.They make good quality watergarden equipment and lots of money doing it.Many copycat companies make much worse stuff.

If AS was to close up today poorly built ponds will still be built.Its a system and people need to know there systems limits.Any pond stocked beyond its limit will fail.

[Graham]

Keith you're right ADI does make a good quality product and when that product is used by someone that's got half a clue and the watergarden is stocked and maintained as they should be..it works. Mary's is a prefect example of a gorgoues water garden, with a couple of fish in it.

The problem is partialy ADI's fault but a lot of it falls on the shoulders of the installers. The majority of you guys are are nothing more than landscapers or someone looking for a new carreer. They get a weekends worth of training and a book..buy a bunch on product and a way you go....They know how to follow the 20 steps, especially the one where collecting the $$ comes in.... install a couple of ponds and attend another few seminar and you get a certification......in what how to stack rock.

The vast majority of the installers don't know one end of a fish from the other or zip about water quality......here buy this...not sure what it does but the ''bible '' says it'll work. To your credit, you at least have managed to learn a bit over the last couple of years.

The bottom line is ADI needs to really train thier customers before they're allowed loose on the public.

G

Edit a good example from the AS site

''.....We had several 6" Koi die over the winter and are concerned about the depth of the water for our "Zone 5" 503 gal.Aquascape pond. Our pond water depth is 19" at its deepest point.....''

"stocked" by him with 4 small koi and 3 small goldfish. We belong to a pond club and after encountering numerous overwintering problems mostly because of the fish growing and probably needing more space we asked him about the depth of the pond to only be told that the "hole only needed to be 24" deep and with the mat, liner and rocks it made it shallower but that didn't count in the 24" recommendation"

''.....to the original installer but he has been entirely hostile when we asked him for help with water quality, fish death or illness issues...''

[Harveythekoi]

True they are not the enemy. They are the NAME behind poorly built ponds. And I'm not just talking Koi ponds. It's their business practices and advertising that makes it that way. The rock bottom philosophy is followed by their many clones.

While their equipment may be a step above others of the same type they still ship it out the door to anyone wanting to call themselves installers. Granted so will any other company with their equipment. The problem is the other companies don't market it as a total pond. AS says if you use this and this you can create a pond of this size. An "Aquascapes Pond".

So they have to lie in the bed they made.

Garrett

[luke-gr]

Kent, will this be one of your EZR-type filters? Any reason one of those couldnt be buried into a bank with plumbing coming out somewhere below?

[Broc]

And thanks for the ongoing photo-journal.

This thread may well be the most helpful to DIYers with dying ponds who are wanting to save them... an important niche in Koiphen's educational goals. Some of your other threads are just too upscale for DIYers to relate to...

How many thousands of ponders need to be watching this?

Maybe CNN and FOX will give it a blurb...

Hey! Don't laugh!





It could happen!

[Kent Wallace]

I have been putting a second hole in these when I find them for sometime now and have at times used just the one hole for inlet and outlet with valves, a wye and a check valve. I'm just baffled that from the beginning AS didn't put a second hole in the bottom for cleaning. Holes are cheap and one extra hole would have saved everyone tons of grief. What were they thinking.
On the subject of that rediculous placement of the autofill. No excuses. It was put there because anywhere else would have meant some thought. This was easy even though it doesn't work. Saying if you keep it clean there won't be a problem is bizzarre. The job of a skimmer (like all other filtration components) is to get dirty.
Ponds built for the best case scenario are doomed to fail but cheap to build and market.

[Koin-Onia]

A extra hole would have cut into their profit

I have been putting a second hole in these when I find them for sometime now and have at times used just the one hole for inlet and outlet with valves, a wye and a check valve. I'm just baffled that from the beginning AS didn't put a second hole in the bottom for cleaning. Holes are cheap and one extra hole would have saved everyone tons of grief. What were they thinking.
On the subject of that rediculous placement of the autofill. No excuses. It was put there because anywhere else would have meant some thought. This was easy even though it doesn't work. Saying if you keep it clean there won't be a problem is bizzarre. The job of a skimmer (like all other filtration components) is to get dirty.
Ponds built for the best case scenario are doomed to fail but cheap to build and market.

[gonecadd]

How in the world does Martin keep his rocks so clean, water so clear, and fish so healthy looking?
All of the ponds I've seen with rocked bottoms always have crud built up on them.