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  • Results 1 to 17 of 17

    Thread: Emergency!

    1. #1
      Jennifermariar is offline Junior Member
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      Emergency!

      Hello, I am freaking out. So I have a grow out tub that's 230 liters about 62 gallons for baby koi less than 5 inches long. I notices two days ago 2 of them have ich so I treated with ich remedy and I raised the temp to 80 degrees. I also added 50 grams of salt. I got a salt meter so it brought it up to about what I thought was 0.002 or 2%. I read that to treat ich it has to be at least .5 so today I doubled the dose. Added second dose. When I checked the salt reader I realized that the measurement has 1.000. Has a ONE in the front and says d %/% at the bottom and the opposite measure 0%. How do I read this? It says salt level is 1.004 and 4%. There is nothing lower on the reader than 1.000 = 0%. My koi were doing better after yesterday treatment now the two sick ones have fins clamped. They were doing fine until I added more salt. Do I need to take it out? Did I add too much or am I reading this wrong?

      Please help!

      *update: he's still eating. Just clamped fins and at times he is super still. The other fish are fine. Not bothered by the salt. I am supposed give second ich treatment tomorrow. Am I doing too much? Not enough... first time my fish get sick. These little guys are new to my collection. Bought them less than a month so I have kept them in the quarantine tub to have them grow a few more inches before moving them to my main 2,000 gal pond with my big koi.
      Last edited by Jennifermariar; 12-07-2022 at 05:53 PM.

    2. #2
      ademink's Avatar
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      I'm a little confused by your post so I would say use this salt calculator. Put in your numbers for gallons and grams of salt that you have added and you should have an accurate reading:

      https://koicarekennel.com/Pond-Salinity-Calculator.html
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member

    3. #3
      *Ci*'s Avatar
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      Can you test your water and post the parameters? Was the tank cycled before putting the fish in less than a month ago? How many koi are in there?
      There is a reason that they are presenting with ich, I suspect that they are stressed with reduced immune systems.
      Just trying to help figure out the possible cause.
      Last edited by *Ci*; 12-07-2022 at 08:30 PM.
      ________________________________________
      Cheers,
      Ci


    4. #4
      two_wheeled is offline Senior Member
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      I understand how unnerving it can be to have so many unknowns with a sick fish! Your salt meter readings are a bit confusing for me to follow, probably because I'm too lazy to go look up the math this late in the evening. A photo of your salt meter might also be helpful. While this thread is mostly focused on salt, the salt concentration is only one part of the equation. You didn't specify if any salt had ever been added to that tank in the past? Salt doesn't go away except with water changes, so I would recommend to not add more salt unless you can determine exactly what your current concentration is.

      Do you have a freshwater test kit? It's very possible that ich isn't the only problem. As Ci suggested, please post your water parameters:
      ph
      ammonia
      nitrite
      nitrate
      -Steve in Phx.
      Novice Extraordinaire

    5. #5
      Jennifermariar is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ademink View Post
      I'm a little confused by your post so I would say use this salt calculator. Put in your numbers for gallons and grams of salt that you have added and you should have an accurate reading:

      https://koicarekennel.com/Pond-Salinity-Calculator.html
      It says .043. My other fish in there are fine. The sickest one was the one suddenly struggling. But then 10 minutes later while he still has clamp fins was eating

    6. #6
      Jennifermariar is offline Junior Member
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      Yes I tested water. Ph: 8.0, ammonia was at 0 just this past weekend and when I tested today it has gone up to .50. Nitrite is 0 and nitrate 0, phosphate. 25 and kh 120. I added a neutralizer as soon as I saw the ammonia. I didn't want to do a water change because I would dilute the medication and salt concentration but I will make a water change tomorrow and I have stopped feeding

    7. #7
      Jennifermariar is offline Junior Member
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      Hi, I did cycle the tub. I was testing water parameters every three days to make sure the water quality did not drop. After 2 months i droped down testing to once a week. I tested it last weekend and all was good. Then yesterday i noticed the ich. It probably was there before but didn't notice sooner because they are very skittish from how young they are. Today the parameters were Ph: 8.0, ammonia has gone up to .50. Nitrite is 0 and nitrate 0, phosphate. 25 and kh 120. The only thing that has changed to explain the spike in ammonia is that its getting colder so a lot of the alage and I'm guessing bacteria is dying back. I added an ammonia detoxifier because I didn't want to drop the concentration of medication and salt just yet by doing a watee change. But tomorrow I will do a water change and test again. I won't be feeding until I can bring the ammonia down. I have a total of 5 koi in that 62 gallon tub. Two are 5 inches and 3 are are 3 inches. I also have a 1 inch goldfish I found in my big pond earlier this year. This is a temporary holding tub until after winter I will move at least the 5 inch ones to the main pond. But right now I have kept them there because I am afraid by 12 to 14 inch kois will eat them. Last the filter is meant to filter up to 120 gallons of water per hour

    8. #8
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      According to the calculator (please double check), for 62 gal of water, it'll take 2.59lb, or 1173g of salt to bring it from 0 to .5% salinity. You should use solar salt, not table salt which has iodine and anti-caking agents. If the fish are not getting better maybe consider chemical treatment like Proform-C/BSDT or even PP.

    9. #9
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      230liters +690grams salt or 1.5 lbs = .3% salinity

      .3% to .6% for treating ich
      Last edited by kdh; 12-08-2022 at 10:14 AM.

    10. #10
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Jennifermariar View Post
      Hi, I did cycle the tub. I was testing water parameters every three days to make sure the water quality did not drop. After 2 months i droped down testing to once a week. I tested it last weekend and all was good. Then yesterday i noticed the ich. It probably was there before but didn't notice sooner because they are very skittish from how young they are. Today the parameters were Ph: 8.0, ammonia has gone up to .50. Nitrite is 0 and nitrate 0, phosphate. 25 and kh 120. The only thing that has changed to explain the spike in ammonia is that its getting colder so a lot of the alage and I'm guessing bacteria is dying back. I added an ammonia detoxifier because I didn't want to drop the concentration of medication and salt just yet by doing a watee change. But tomorrow I will do a water change and test again. I won't be feeding until I can bring the ammonia down. I have a total of 5 koi in that 62 gallon tub. Two are 5 inches and 3 are are 3 inches. I also have a 1 inch goldfish I found in my big pond earlier this year. This is a temporary holding tub until after winter I will move at least the 5 inch ones to the main pond. But right now I have kept them there because I am afraid by 12 to 14 inch kois will eat them. Last the filter is meant to filter up to 120 gallons of water per hour
      your koi well not eat them

    11. #11
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      The salinity tester that you have sounds like a refractometer, which is designed for testing salt water reef and aquaria. It is not sensitive enough for the low salinity that you want with freshwater fishes. Look at getting a conductivity type tester like a TDS meter designed to read up to maximum 1.999%.


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      Richard

    12. #12
      ademink's Avatar
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      It takes quite a while to remove salt from the water. Intuitively you think if you remove 20% of the water, you're removing 20% of the salt but it doesn't work that way (Rich can probably explain why...I can't lol). Get a good salt meter that you can read, do regular water changes and re-dose with ammonia blocker ***every 48 hours for the total volume of the tank***. You'll still see ammonia on the kit but the fish will be protected (it'll make you nervous but it works...trust me). With a usable salt meter, you can get your salt volume where it needs to be.

      If you only cycled your tank for 2 weeks and then it was "good", it likely never cycled b/c it doesn't happen that quickly unless your media is fully matured. Just stay the course w/ the ammonia blocker, testing and water changes.
      Andrea
      Koi Health Care Committee Member

    13. #13
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      I think it's like the first time you swap out 50% of the water you remove 50% of the salt, but the next time you do another 50% water change, you are only removing another 25%, basically deminish return because of the concentration dilution.

    14. #14
      Jennifermariar is offline Junior Member
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      Yes that's exactly what I have. And that makes sense now. I will buy the correct one. Thank you!

    15. #15
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      Update:
      So far all my fish are alive. The worst one, the asagi, still has some fin clamping but he is active and they all keep begging for food. I will do my first water change tomorrow and hopefully next week I start to see some change. Not sure how long it takes for the ich to disappear from the fish. Thank you all for all your help and advice. Not out of the woods but have hope they will all be ok. I am going to add a second filter and some start up to make sure the cycle stablizes. I did seed the tub with filter media from my pond which is why after a month of everything being ok I didn't think I would get an ammonia spike. But here we are. Wish me luck! And thank you again!

    16. #16
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      Because the bumps associated with ich, the ich stage is embedded and nothing will kill it. The embedded lay eggs that drift to the bottom of the container and after a time hatch into tomites. It is only in the free swimming tomite stage that the ich is susceptible to treatment. That is one reason that I think salt is the only good treatment as salt can be maintained at a level that will kill for months if needed. Colder water slows the cycle significantly. I consider a level of 0.3% to be the correct level, though slightly higher won't hurt.


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      Richard

    17. #17
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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