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  • Results 1 to 8 of 8

    Thread: Very Basic Filter Question

    1. #1
      drjay9051 is offline Junior Member
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      Very Basic Filter Question

      My pond holds app. 3,500 gallons per on line calculator. I am not looking for a professional set up but rather a filter that will keep the water fairly clear and safe. Again this is not a "show pond" but a simple backyard enhancement for my own enjoyment. Fish load is minimal, currently about 6 medium size fish and some frogs that came from who knows where.

      Not sure if they are small koi or large goldfish. Excuse my ignorance.

      Anyway, I am using a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank as a filter. in its current form I have the water being pumped from a submersible pump (Alpine Cyclone, 5,200 GPH) into the bottom of the tank and exiting out the top to return to pond in a simple waterfall fashion.

      My only media is 10 filter pads ranging from fine to coarse made by Aquatic Experts.

      The pond is pretty clear and in 3 years I have yet to have a fish kill due to Ammonia or nitrite build up.

      I clean the filter a couple times a year which entails draining the stock tank via built in drain valve and rinsing pads. The pads hold quite a bit of "muck" and seem to weigh 10 pounds each prior to cleaning.

      I am considering revising the filter as follows:

      Rather than the water entering at the bottom and flowing upward I would have the water enter at the top and via a series of PVC pipes with many holes drilled would "trickle" the water into the filter. Just below the trickling water I would have filter pads to catch large particles followed by something like bio balls or pot scrubber pads to allow growth of beneficial bacteria. This would be supported on a sheet of polycarbonate which in turn would be supported by either 4 large flower pots or 5 gallon buckets. The water would then flow back to pond from the bottom of the stock tank rather than from the top as I currently have set up.

      Is this a better set up as far as removing waste and maybe improving clarity?

      I ask because many years ago i had a salt water fish tank and a so called wet/dry" or trickle filter was in vogue at the time

      However many of the commercial waterfall filters I see on line utilize a bottom to top flow which does not provide a wet/dry environment.

      In short will I get better results with a revision since there will be a massive area exposed to open air(oxygen) or is my current setup providing enough oxygen since there is clearly dissolved oxygen in the water (I do have a large aerator running in the pond?

      Although the pic appears to show water entering at top there s actually a PVC pipe which extends to the bottom of the tank hence water enters filter at bottom.

      Sorry for the long post.

      Any thoughts are appreciated.
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    2. #2
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      I think your filter just needs an stage to remove solids from the water before entering your current filter that will allow your current setup to work better IMO and you would only have to clean your solids tank. If you reverse what you currently have I don't see any benefit you would just be doing that.

    3. #3
      *Ci*'s Avatar
      *Ci* is offline Administrator
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      The benefits to a down flow filter set up the way you describe would be:

      a) your top mat would be your prefilter and in theory you would only need to clean that section, while the rest of the filter receives clean water.

      b) if the water does indeed “trickle”, then yes, it is essentially a shower filter which are very effective bio converters. However, pipe sizes and flow need to be balanced so that water exits as fast as it enters, and some kind of failsafe needs to be incorporated in case the top mat clogs to prevent the tank from overflowing.

      And after all that, there is no guarantee that your water will be clearer. You say that the pond has been clear and the fish healthy, so what are you trying to accomplish? My feeling is that, overall, the stock tank you have is inadequate filtration for a 3500 pond, but it is getting by since your stocking levels are low at the moment. If your fish are koi, this will change as they grow.
      Adding a sand & gravel filter either as a prefilter for the stock tank or on a second circuit feeding a waterfall would help with clarity as well as extra bio filtration.

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...-Gravel-Filter

      Something to think about.
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    4. #4
      drjay9051 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      I think your filter just needs an stage to remove solids from the water before entering your current filter that will allow your current setup to work better IMO and you would only have to clean your solids tank. If you reverse what you currently have I don't see any benefit you would just be doing that.

      If I reverse what I have do I not create a more efficient "biological filter"?

    5. #5
      drjay9051 is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by *Ci* View Post
      The benefits to a down flow filter set up the way you describe would be:

      a) your top mat would be your prefilter and in theory you would only need to clean that section, while the rest of the filter receives clean water.

      b) if the water does indeed “trickle”, then yes, it is essentially a shower filter which are very effective bio converters. However, pipe sizes and flow need to be balanced so that water exits as fast as it enters, and some kind of failsafe needs to be incorporated in case the top mat clogs to prevent the tank from overflowing.

      And after all that, there is no guarantee that your water will be clearer. You say that the pond has been clear and the fish healthy, so what are you trying to accomplish? My feeling is that, overall, the stock tank you have is inadequate filtration for a 3500 pond, but it is getting by since your stocking levels are low at the moment. If your fish are koi, this will change as they grow.
      Adding a sand & gravel filter either as a prefilter for the stock tank or on a second circuit feeding a waterfall would help with clarity as well as extra bio filtration.

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...-Gravel-Filter

      Something to think about.
      Ci:

      I appreciate your thoughts. When I look at the stock tank filter compared to my pond it appears, at least visually large enough. Maybe I over/under estimated my pond volume. I'll have to check that.

      FWIW: I have an identical stock tank which was receiving water from the now unused line which is visible in my picture. So I actually had 2 filters but took one away as I was going to change things up. Also much easier to hide one stock tank. it is currently used to just allow more water movement.


      My question is this: If I were to reemploy this second tank and use one as a trickle (bio) filter and the other to remove solid waste is it OK to have them run
      independently? I realize the removal of solids would take longer as only half the water would go to the solids removal filter. Would be easier than trying to run in series.

      Really my big question is will a trickle filter be a better filter than what I currently have or do bio filters support beneficial bacteria if fully submerged? If so I may just as well add bio balls or pads to filter as it exists. As I mentioned many of the waterfall filters I see for sale are fully submerged yet utilize bio balls.

      Thanks
      or should I hook them up in

    6. #6
      trapper is offline Senior Member
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      I think you need to rethink your entire filter system as I see no mention of a bottom drain, which sucks most all of the fish waste up and sends it to your 1st filter where it's easily removed. You seem like a DIY guy so you can make everything you need and save big money by doing so. The fish waste then go to a Settlement chamber, I used a big tote but you could use 1 of your tanks for this and hang a prefilter container in the middle with your pads in there, the container will need a lot of holes or slits cut all the way around it to let the water to enter then out of the bottom of the prefilter the water gets piped to a pump then goes to a homemade S&G filter, then to the bio filter and back to the pond.. Without the bottom drain the crap will stay in the pond. The S&G filter will give you crystal clear water as it catches the fines. Look in the DIY section and you'll get all kinds of ideas. Good luck Jay..

    7. #7
      MCAsan is offline Senior Member
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      Koi pond filtration and bio-conversion

      Suggest reading the attached document "Filtration Basics".

      We filter out solids. We do not filter out ammonia or other nitrogen compounds. We use commonly occurring bacteria to convert toxic ammonia to toxic nitrite to much less toxic nitrate. Much of the nitrate we can get rid of with weekly water changes of 10-20%. Remember: Dilution is the solution to pollution.
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    8. #8
      Enrgizerbunny is offline Senior Member
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      Hey! I’m late to this party, but i think you’ve got a lovely looking pond! I haven’t read every post in this thread, but I think I got the general idea.

      Based on the couple pictures and my experience, I think I can suggest a couple things to help with clarity that worked for me. First, it appears you have rectangle pads in a round stock tank. Fitting the pads to the container and forcing the water through the pads should help. Additionally, keeping the “bottom up” flow allows gravity to work in your favor and prevents overflowing if the pads get clogged to where flow is reduced. This is also a time to consider other media types if you want to improve clarity by that route. I see a second stock tank in the background, putting a second tank in line with other media or for settling will help too.

      The beneficial bacteria that grow in our filters are beholden to oxygen rich water, the presence of food (ammonia), and to some degree, temperature. They need large surface areas to grow and thrive, and submerged media works very well. I’ve never used a wet/dry filter common in saltwater systems. I’d be concerned about the summer months drying out the media that doesn’t have water being sprayed directly on it and reducing your arable surface area for bacterial growth.

      I have a pump fed system like yours and keep clear water. For 1800 gallons I pump ~2000gph through a 55 gallon drum with 6 layers of matala (black,green,Blue,blue,gray,gray) media cut to fit the drum and then 1000 bioballs in laundry bags. I also have a pump with a built in UV light for my fountain, which prevents algae growth and really helped clarity. I can see 5 feet to the bottom no problem.

      Bottom drains that go to a settling tank without going to a pump keep the solids whole and don’t grind them into bits that are harder to filter, but if its not feasible don’t fret, you can get good clarity either way.
      Last edited by Enrgizerbunny; 12-01-2022 at 10:27 PM.

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