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    Thread: Need Advice For Temp Pond Setup In Garage

    1. #1
      green_water is offline Junior Member
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      Question Need Advice For Temp Pond Setup In Garage

      Hi, at the house I am leaving I got a 60gallon mini pond with waterfall last year and for the past 3 months have had 2 comet gold fish (one larger, one small) and a Koi who has grown from very small to about 7-8inches. They are currently very happy in the pond and I've become attached to them. The koi is crazy the way he whips the plants on top when its feeding time, they are really cool fish and now I see why people love to keep them.

      Now I am moving to a new house but I don't have a pond yet. I plan on getting one installed in the spring, a much larger one too. I am trying to figure out how to keep the fish over the winter until the new pond is ready, which could be late spring next year.

      I was originally thinking of getting this for $35 as its prettty big but it needs a level surface and my garage has a slope, plus, its kind of cheesy so I wasnt sure how well it would hold up for months.

      The other thing I found was this: Temporary Koi Storage Tank with Black Mesh Cover - Pond H2o but its $300, plus I am going to need to buy a filtration system and I didnt want to really burn money on this as its money better spent on the actual pond. Plus the fact I will probably never use it again. However, maybe its worth getting so I have a temporary quarantine if down the road i need to seperate fish or quarantine new ones.

      If anyone has a better idea of something I can use I am open to all suggestions. I know the local health food store has a huge koi in a 55 gallon drum, IDK if that is an option, no idea how much a plastic one costs though.

      Also, if someone can recommend an inexpensive filter/pump system that will do the trick. Again, I dont want to buy something top of the line for temporary use but want to get something that will have no issues keeping my fish healthy.

      EDIT: Found these more reasonable price options:

      https://www.acehardware.com/departme...terers/7001746


      THe rubbermaid looks great for the price, and will be plenty heavy duty.



      https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Fold...7D1CGDBH&psc=1

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      green_water is offline Junior Member
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      I'm guessing a pond liner like this wont work sitting on the garage floor? The overhang that isnt supported looks like an issue. https://www.homedepot.com/pep/MacCou...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

      I am leaning towards the 100 gallon rubbermaid. I feel like it would be a lot sturdier over the winter than the portable one.


      Can anyone recommend a filter system for the 100 gallon rubbermaid? Again, not wanting to go crazy as this is basically just a temporary system and will be replaced next year.

      Thanks

    3. #3
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      You can build a trickle tower with few milk crates, lava rock, and a water pump. You should get air pump for aeration too, cost is probably ~$150 give or take.

      So say you stack 4 crates (12x12x12) vertically, bottom 2 is the support leg, 3rd one to hold the lava rocks, and get 3"-5" size lava rocks and fill it, and 4th one on top to drain the water down.
      The pump will sit in the bottom create to prevent sucking the fish, run a vinyl tube to the top, get a 200 micron mesh sock to capture particles, use a 12" square planter saucer, drill many holes to create the trickle, and set it on the top crate.
      Put some feed into the pool and run the pump to start the nitrification cycle, add plenty of baking soda for KH, you need at least 4 weeks to kick start the bacteria, then you have to monitor for water quality frequently.
      Last edited by fly4koi; 08-27-2022 at 01:45 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      You can build a trickle tower with few milk crates, lava rock, and a water pump. You should get air pump for aeration too, cost is probably ~$150 give or take.

      So say you stack 4 crates (12x12x12) vertically, bottom 2 is the support leg, 3rd one to hold the lava rocks, and get 3"-5" size lava rocks and fill it, and 4th one on top to drain the water down.
      The pump will sit in the bottom create to prevent sucking the fish, run a vinyl tube to the top, get a 200 micron mesh sock to capture particles, use a 12" square planter saucer, drill many holes to create the trickle, and set it on the top crate.
      Put some feed into the pool and run the pump to start the nitrification cycle, add plenty of baking soda for KH, you need at least 4 weeks to kick start the bacteria, then you have to monitor for water quality frequently.
      Thank you for your reply.....


      The 100 gallon rubbermaid I am thinking of using (https://www.acehardware.com/departme...terers/7001746) is only 2ft deep, am I correct that I need at least 3-4ft of depth for this to work? Or is most of this tower sticking out of water?

      Also are these the 12x12x12 crates you are referring to? https://www.homedepot.com/p/GSC-Tech...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

      Thanks

    5. #5
      One Poet's Garden's Avatar
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      Get the rubbermaid, since it's nice and sturdy. While you're at it, buy one of these brute trash cans: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubberma...1188/100342585. You need a submersible pump, a hose, some lava rock like for bar-b-ques (also at home depot), and some 2" pvc pipe.

      Trash can goes next to the rubbermaid, pump goes in rubbermaid, hose end goes in the bottom of the trash can. Cut a piece of pvc a little less than the height of the trash can, and stick the hose down through that, makes it easier if you ever need to do maintenance. Fill the trash can with lava rock. Cut a hole near the top of the trash can, attach pvc pipe so water flows from the trash can back into the pond.

      Easy peasy. It'll last for months. There are lots of variations - using electrical conduit makes sealing the trash can hole easier, some folks add a second vertical pvc pipe so you can drain it without taking the pump hose out, etc. But the basic idea's the same.

      Good luck!

      Best, Bill

    6. #6
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Yes the lava rocks are not submerged in the water, supposedly the air helps it to be way more efficient at processing the nitrification cycle.
      I suppose you can get some PVC and make something so that the crate sits on top of the stock tank, or you need to put it inside another tote and waterfall it back in to the tank.
      I use a 500 gal intex pool so it just sit in the middle.
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      Tractor Supply - 25% off 300 gallon Rubber Maid Stock Tank.

      https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...y?cm_vc=-10005
      ....."Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.".....Mark Twain

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      Quote Originally Posted by One Poet's Garden View Post
      Get the rubbermaid, since it's nice and sturdy. While you're at it, buy one of these brute trash cans: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubberma...1188/100342585. You need a submersible pump, a hose, some lava rock like for bar-b-ques (also at home depot), and some 2" pvc pipe.

      Trash can goes next to the rubbermaid, pump goes in rubbermaid, hose end goes in the bottom of the trash can. Cut a piece of pvc a little less than the height of the trash can, and stick the hose down through that, makes it easier if you ever need to do maintenance. Fill the trash can with lava rock. Cut a hole near the top of the trash can, attach pvc pipe so water flows from the trash can back into the pond.

      Easy peasy. It'll last for months. There are lots of variations - using electrical conduit makes sealing the trash can hole easier, some folks add a second vertical pvc pipe so you can drain it without taking the pump hose out, etc. But the basic idea's the same.

      Good luck!

      Best, Bill
      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      Yes the lava rocks are not submerged in the water, supposedly the air helps it to be way more efficient at processing the nitrification cycle.
      I suppose you can get some PVC and make something so that the crate sits on top of the stock tank, or you need to put it inside another tote and waterfall it back in to the tank.
      I use a 500 gal intex pool so it just sit in the middle.
      Both of these options are really cool. I assume the 32 gallon version is going to require less maintenance since its going to hold a lot more lava rock? Could I go with a slightly smaller garbage can to take up less space? Like for example a standard kitchen garbage can (much more slim line)?

      I kind of like the fact the 12x12x12 crates can go inside the tank and not take up more garage floor space, my garage is already cramped. What prevents the fish from swimming in through the handle holes? Am I supposed to close them off?

      Do i zip tie the crates together? What size pump would I want? I might even have a spare one from an old hydrponic garden.


      Quote Originally Posted by rayjay View Post
      Tractor Supply - 25% off 300 gallon Rubber Maid Stock Tank.

      https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...y?cm_vc=-10005

      Thanks but that thing is HUGE! I dont know if I want to go that large in my garage. Also, is that not over kill for 1 small koi and 2 goldfish? I def. want to make sure the 100 gallon stock tank is enough, I would assume it is because the current pond is closer to 60-70gallons I believe and they do fine. I would maybe jump up to the 150gallon but its nearly double the price at $189 vs $109 for the 100 gal.

      Thanks everyone!

    9. #9
      One Poet's Garden's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by green_water View Post
      I assume the 32 gallon version is going to require less maintenance since its going to hold a lot more lava rock? Could I go with a slightly smaller garbage can to take up less space? Like for example a standard kitchen garbage can (much more slim line)?
      I use the 32 gallon version for my 1000 gallon greenhouse pond. For what you're doing, you could go way smaller. But try to find something sturdy: you don't want flimsy walls.

      Best,

      Bill

    10. #10
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      You should net up the submersible pump if your fish are small (perhaps the crate itself, if you are using it as the stand), and net up the tank to prevent them from jumping out. Pump flow probably go for 100 GPH is sufficient, that cycles the tank once per hour. My crates just sits on top of each other, it took me 30 lb of lava rock to fill up one crate and it's very stable.

      Ultimately you need to have enough bacteria to process the water so that would determine the size of the filter.
      Last edited by fly4koi; 08-29-2022 at 12:46 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      You should net up the submersible pump if your fish are small (perhaps the crate itself, if you are using it as the stand), and net up the tank to prevent them from jumping out. Pump flow probably go for 100 GPH is sufficient, that cycles the tank once per hour. My crates just sits on top of each other, it took me 30 lb of lava rock to fill up one crate and it's very stable.

      Ultimately you need to have enough bacteria to process the water so that would determine the size of the filter.
      Thank you, are these the correct filter socks?

      https://www.amazon.com/Filter-Socks-...00QCLJOOO&th=1


      If you have a 500gallon tank, I could probably build a smaller trickle tower but I wouldnt be able to use crates because 12x12x12 is probably the smallest. Ive seen people build them out of rubbermaid drawer organizers on youtube, I dont think that will work for sitting in the pond though.

      I have one small comet gold fish that doesnt have an issue with the tank sitting at the bottom of the pond at the moment with nothing around it, so I would imagine it should be fine without the net. I dont have a net on my pond either but it's got a lot of aquatic plants on top (I have it about 90% covered with hyacinth and water lettuce to reduce algae) so maybe that is why they dont jump.

      I will have to see how well the 12x12x12 crate fits in my tank when I get it, if it fits well and doesnt take up too much of their space, I might go with it. The aerator is because the trickle tower itself isnt enough aeration?

      Thanks

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by One Poet's Garden View Post
      Get the rubbermaid, since it's nice and sturdy. While you're at it, buy one of these brute trash cans: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubberma...1188/100342585. You need a submersible pump, a hose, some lava rock like for bar-b-ques (also at home depot), and some 2" pvc pipe.

      Trash can goes next to the rubbermaid, pump goes in rubbermaid, hose end goes in the bottom of the trash can. Cut a piece of pvc a little less than the height of the trash can, and stick the hose down through that, makes it easier if you ever need to do maintenance. Fill the trash can with lava rock. Cut a hole near the top of the trash can, attach pvc pipe so water flows from the trash can back into the pond.

      Easy peasy. It'll last for months. There are lots of variations - using electrical conduit makes sealing the trash can hole easier, some folks add a second vertical pvc pipe so you can drain it without taking the pump hose out, etc. But the basic idea's the same.

      Good luck!

      Best, Bill
      Bill how does your trash can method compare with this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9zVLh2dGt0

      I was looking for videos on how to build your filter and found this and realized its kind of the opposite as it drops water from the top not the bottom.

      Thanks

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      Sorry for another post but that guys videos got me on to this tank I didnt see previously: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...RoCkswQAvD_BwE

      It's 10 gallons more, its wider but 5 inches shallower. The plus is it doesnt have a drain to leak (the reason he said he used it over the rubbermaid). Is 20 inches deep going to be enough or should I stick with the 25 inch deep rubbermaid? I can still cancel the rubbermaid order. I figured for Koi the deeper would be better?

      So Rubbermaid is 53inx31inx25in deep - 100 gallons
      The Tuff Stuff one is 53inx36inx20in deep - 110 gallons

      Thanks

    14. #14
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      I use this one and I like it because it doesn't have the circular ring on top: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XI1OLE4

      I would say when the filter is mature, 10 lb of lava rocks might be enough? You might be able to get a couple cedar 2x4s and set them across from the tank and prop up the crate that way.
      Aeration is there to provide backup source of air, it's just something that I do but YMMV.

    15. #15
      One Poet's Garden's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by green_water View Post
      Bill how does your trash can method compare with this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9zVLh2dGt0

      I was looking for videos on how to build your filter and found this and realized its kind of the opposite as it drops water from the top not the bottom.
      In that video: the uniseals are a good idea, if you've never used them. I've never been able to source large amounts of cheap pot scrubbers. His use of PVC is pretty obtrusive, if one cares about aesthetics. He has the trash can elevated, so he's forced to make it a down-flow filter. Upflow has always worked out better for me, and that way the trash can can sit on the floor, so it's more discreet. Because it's a down-flow filter, he needs to make that spray bar thing, which complicates the piping.

      But the worst problem, and the reason that filter will fail, is the fiberfill. It will clog, in some cases it will clog in less than a day. it will require constant maintenance, which won't get done, because it's such a tiresome hassle. And then it will turn into a toxic mess. Don't ask me how I know...

      On the other hand, the baskets to contain the media are a good idea. I use mesh bags for this. I fill each bag with about a quart of lava rock. That way, when I need to clean the filter, I can just lift them out, rinse them off with pond water, and put them back in. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YFJ6R8Z/

      Best,

      Bill
      Last edited by One Poet's Garden; 08-29-2022 at 10:27 PM.

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      So the move is coming up in about a month so I want to get my tank running so that there is a month for it to build up the bacteria (I am also going to add Pond PL, I dont know if that speeds it up?)


      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      I use this one and I like it because it doesn't have the circular ring on top: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XI1OLE4

      I would say when the filter is mature, 10 lb of lava rocks might be enough? You might be able to get a couple cedar 2x4s and set them across from the tank and prop up the crate that way.
      Aeration is there to provide backup source of air, it's just something that I do but YMMV.

      I am leaning towards trying this method first because it minimizes the amount of floor space used. I bought 2 crates and tested holding them on top of the tank with boards. I could easily add 2 more crates and have it sit in the tank but its going to take up about 1/3 of the swimming space, is that too much? I think they can swim into the crates through the handle holes, perhaps they would actually like that? Might be a little tight for the koi though, he is getting huge.

      Having the crate sit on the tank with 2x4's is also going to be a little sketchy. I could probably secure things and it will be better but the 2x4s are going to get wet, I assume that is why you recommended cedar, not sure if they sell those at home depot. pressure treated is obviously out because of the chemicals and douglas fir is going to get rotted. Maybe I will post a picture later of what the tank looks like with the crates in it so you all can tell me if its enough room for my fish (I may add one or two more comet goldfish too)


      Quote Originally Posted by One Poet's Garden View Post
      In that video: the uniseals are a good idea, if you've never used them. I've never been able to source large amounts of cheap pot scrubbers. His use of PVC is pretty obtrusive, if one cares about aesthetics. He has the trash can elevated, so he's forced to make it a down-flow filter. Upflow has always worked out better for me, and that way the trash can can sit on the floor, so it's more discreet. Because it's a down-flow filter, he needs to make that spray bar thing, which complicates the piping.

      But the worst problem, and the reason that filter will fail, is the fiberfill. It will clog, in some cases it will clog in less than a day. it will require constant maintenance, which won't get done, because it's such a tiresome hassle. And then it will turn into a toxic mess. Don't ask me how I know...

      On the other hand, the baskets to contain the media are a good idea. I use mesh bags for this. I fill each bag with about a quart of lava rock. That way, when I need to clean the filter, I can just lift them out, rinse them off with pond water, and put them back in. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YFJ6R8Z/

      Best,

      Bill

      Thanks Bill, I was going to do the filter you recommended but the 32 gallon bin is quite large, the 20gallon looks like it would be a lot more reasonable for my size tank, but the 20 gallon isnt tall enough to run water back in to the pond (its 2 inches shorter than the tank). I am still considering doing the filter with the 20 gallon and finding a way to elevate it (it needs to be quite sturdy to hold 20 gallons of water + lava rocks though). I am going to use the uniseals if I do and will keep to your original design (except maybe add bags for the media)


      I guess both of these will perform about the same? One thing I like about the trickle tower is that it uses the filter sock so I can clean that out easily on a regular basis. I dont know which will provide more aeration? I guess I will add an airstone regardless. Can any of you recommend an aeration system?

      Thanks!

    17. #17
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      Potentially you can use PVC pipes to rig something to hold the crates and just use polyester ropes to secure them so they don't move around? I think it'll take up too much space standing in the water.

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      Quote Originally Posted by fly4koi View Post
      Potentially you can use PVC pipes to rig something to hold the crates and just use polyester ropes to secure them so they don't move around? I think it'll take up too much space standing in the water.
      Thanks, I think I am going to try pressure treated deck balusters. I can screw the wood to the tank to lock it in place and make it tight enough against the lip around the edge of the crate that it will lock the crate and the water won't hit the wood.

      I think the square wood will hold the crate a lot easier than the round pvc, a square plastic beam would be ideal though, not sure such a thing exists.


      Still not sure I like the crate taking up viewing area of my small tank though, still considering trying the other filter with the 20 gallon garbage can as well. Trying to decide if I rather have full view vs losing more garage space to the garbage can.
      Last edited by green_water; 09-17-2022 at 09:15 AM.

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      I'm not sure I bought the correct Lava Rocks. I bought these from Home Depot (they are the only ones they carry in store) and I realize now they are kind of small, some feel 2 inches but most feel smaller. Are these the wrong ones?

      https://www.homedepot.com/p/Endless-...5002/100331664



      Can anyone advise where I can buy the correct ones?


      I found these that are 1-3inches but I would have to order them: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fire-Pit...0649/311824403


      EDIT: Re-reading your posts you recommended 3-5inch lava rocks, where can I get them? I dont see them on Home Depot.com The closest I found was 4-6inch: https://www.homedepot.com/p/American...L-20/304078212

      EDIT2: I guess I should have checked Amazon first, here I f ound 3-5 inch lava rocks black and red: https://www.amazon.com/Fireproof-Hea...07P2F2XWQ?th=1

      Can you tell me how many pounds it took to fill your 12x12x12 crate?
      Last edited by green_water; 09-18-2022 at 10:11 AM.

    20. #20
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      The size is not too important. 3”-5” seems a bit big to me (baseball and softball size). they would have big gaps and not be an efficient use of space. Most trickle towers and showers I’ve seen use more golfball size (maybe 3/4” up to 2”). Anything smaller than that might clog and channel.
      Use what is the most convenient and affordable within those guidelines.
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