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  • Results 1 to 17 of 17

    Thread: my sons koi died.. need help.. mark on fish. flukes? pic inside

    1. #1
      formypet is offline Junior Member
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      my sons koi died.. need help.. mark on fish. flukes? pic inside

      hello, my sons koi that we bought just a week ago has died. I noticed this mark on it. the other koi I've noticed now has it. how do I treat this problem?. thank you for all the help. pond is new and 400 gallons. 3 new small koi. filter is topclear 5000 and pump is superfish 5000. ammonia reading at 0.5mg/l nitrite at 10 mg/l and ph at 8.5.. what do I do?.. everything looked ok until today, so was surprised by results. thank you for all the help. Name:  20220813_161037(0).jpg
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    2. #2
      SimonW is offline Senior Member
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      I don't know what caused the marks, but the nitrite is way too high. Add immediately at least 4 kg NaCl to make 0.2-0.3%. Cl-jons protects fish against nitrite.

      The presence of ammonia is also worrisome, but not as acute.

    3. #3
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      This isn't my area of expertise but that looks like the worst ammonia burn I've ever seen, sorry about the loss.

    4. #4
      formypet is offline Junior Member
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      update: I have taken drastic action. not sure it's the right thing to do. I tested the tap water and it reads no ammonia. I then put the fish in tank with a pump. they seemed ok. I 100% have changed the water. i have now put new water in the pond with dechlorinator. the pond at moment now reads 0 ammonia. I am now going to buy the ammonia binder has advised which will come in a few days. not feeding the fish or should I feed once a day at moment until binder comes?. I am going to test the water daily and change the water 50% each day. I also have this anti biotic that I use for fishing, is it ok to use on the burns for the koi?

      did I do the right thing? i cant let them swim in toxic water that's harming them.Name:  20220814_105254.jpg
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    5. #5
      icu2's Avatar
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      I'm not sure what kind of test kit you have but know even though you use an ammonia binder, ammonia and nitrite will probably
      register on the tests. Ammonia comes in two forms, NH3 and NH4. NH3 is toxic and the ammonia binder detoxifies the NH3 but
      like you said, the ammonia can revert back to NH3 after 48 hours and it is why it needs to be reapplied till your filter is mature
      and can convert it to nitrite (and then nitrite to nitrate) on its own.
      The Propolis has mixed opinions and since it's a topical type treatment you might do more harm than good trying to catch and
      apply it to the remaining fish.
      With a 400 gallon pond I'd maybe get goldfish as opposed to koi. But I'd work on getting the pond mature before adding any
      more fish. No food till water is under control too.
      Good luck and welcome to the forum!
      --Steve


    6. #6
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      You are probably on the right track. I have seen a lot of people treating fish with iodine or hydrogen peroxide as cleaning agents and then covering the wounds with Propolis to aid in healing. Since the fish appears to have been chemically burned, I would not use peroxide or iodine. I have never used Propolis, so my comments are just passing on others experience. Fresh clean water is the most important key to healing.


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    7. #7
      formypet is offline Junior Member
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      update: after researching I believe the fish wounds are ulcers most likely caused from the water quality. I treated the fish with propolis and 100% water change. I am ordering prime to deal with the ammonia and use that every 48 hours for the mean time. is the right prime to use https://www.swelluk.com/seachem-prime#prime-4ltrs

    8. #8
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Yes that is the right Prime. You may want to get the SeaChem Ammonia Alert Card, which shows the level of the toxic ammonia, or unbound ammonia. If it is showing safe, then additional doses of Prime are not needed, but if it is showing toxic ammonia in less than 48 hours, then additional Prime should be added.


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      Richard

    9. #9
      formypet is offline Junior Member
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      update: I started using prime two days ago and started feeding once in the morning two days ago. the ammonia levels are now down to 0. the nitrite no2 is at 0.1mg/l and the nitrate no3 is at 10mg, so I think the pond cycle is now doing well.. I hope... the ph though is at 8.5 so I want to get that down. what's the best way to get ph down without having to do a big water change? The fish seem ok. swimming about and feeding. it seems the ulcer is slowly healing, but could heal better if the ph is down I feel. all I've done to the ulcer is use the topical treatment. I've learnt so much on here from all of you and want to thank you for all taking the time to help.

    10. #10
      fly4koi is online now Senior Member
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      pH at 8.5 is fine IMO, test the water daily to monitor.

    11. #11
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      I am going to recommend the purchase of a KH test kit. KH is needed to stabilize the pH. If the KH is over 100 and the pH is around 8.3, then it should be stable. If the KH is low, then a pH value of "X" doesn't tell you much. The pH when the KH is low can swing from 5 at sunrise to 10 at sundown, and a single test in the middle of the day could be anywhere between these values. In lieu of the KH test kit, measure the pH at sunup and sunset and if it is within a couple of tenths, then you are good. If the KH is low, then add baking soda to increase the alkalinity. At the top of the page is a link to a calculator that will tell you how much baking soda to add to increase the alkalinity X amount. If I am adding, I like to add in the evening when the pH is highest, and raise the KH to 150 or 200ppm, as it is depleted by the bio processes.


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      formypet is offline Junior Member
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      I've got a KH kit, I just didn't realise the importance of KH. I got the colombo test kit, which has most of the water tests. the only thing is it doesnt have numbers as such, it just says how many drops it takes to turn yellow. I'll do that early morning as i'll be doing all tests again tomorrow morning to keep an eye on the ammonia etc. thank you for the help. I'll post all the results on here.

    13. #13
      formypet is offline Junior Member
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      update: Not good. the fish that has an ulcer on its side now has a small ulcer near its tail which I've just noticed. I've just put topical treatment on it, but now am wanting to see if theres anti bacterial stuff I can use.. what's your advise guys. it's not looking good.

    14. #14
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by formypet View Post
      I've got a KH kit, I just didn't realise the importance of KH. I got the colombo test kit, which has most of the water tests. the only thing is it doesnt have numbers as such, it just says how many drops it takes to turn yellow. I'll do that early morning as i'll be doing all tests again tomorrow morning to keep an eye on the ammonia etc. thank you for the help. I'll post all the results on here.
      Just multiply the number of drops to change color by 17.86 to convert to ppm.
      There's a set of calculators on the forum's dark blue navigation bar named "Koi Calculators". There's one for Alkalinity/KH to find how much
      baking soda to add if needed:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/koicalcs.php
      --Steve


    15. #15
      formypet is offline Junior Member
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      test results from today
      ammonnia 0

      nitrite 0

      nitrate 3mg/l

      ph went up from 8.5 to 8.8.. we did have rain

      kh was 8 drops on the colombo test kit

    16. #16
      Noahsnana's Avatar
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      17.8 per drop x 8 drops = 142.4 places you in a ok zone
      The will of God will not take you where the grace of God cannot keep you. .....
      "I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." -Winston Churchill Zone 7a
      I believe it can happen... Koi World Peace
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    17. #17
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      I am familiar with antibiotics that can be used in the US, but not in UK. You might try to see if there is any help with https://www.bkks.co.uk/

      I would say that there is a need for some type of antibiotic to treat ulcers.


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      Richard

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