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  • Results 1 to 17 of 17

    Thread: Karashigoi x Golden Corn expectations?

    1. #1
      Primitive is offline Senior Member
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      Karashigoi x Golden Corn expectations?

      I'm currently growing out 1 golden corn and 4 karashigoi. I'm hoping to try out some breeding in the future of this setup. My goal is to get some type of chagoi type mutt that is ginrin and large and light in color.

      If some turns out to be ginrin karashigoi i'll be happy.
      If some turns out to be more golden corn with karashigoi blood, there's nothing wrong in that.

      I read that the Taniguchi Golden Corn line uses a 40"+ chagoi blood, and can possibly get big. Maybe some of that genetic will trickle down and can result in some nice Ogon with ginrin.

    2. #2
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      Sounds like you have the beginning pieces of a large puzzle. First how old are your koi and second it Sounds like you have a short wish list but what are truly your expectations.

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      Primitive is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      Sounds like you have the beginning pieces of a large puzzle. First how old are your koi and second it Sounds like you have a short wish list but what are truly your expectations.
      I'm learning to really enjoy solid color fish and seeing the ginrin scales up close. I simply want to create a large cream type of chagoi or karashigoi, with the golden corn pattern. I imagine since i'm mixing 2 solid type of fish, the results should be fairly consistent. I want the lighter color chagoi/karashigoi body with good ginrin. This should make the culling process less intensive. Would be nice to get some large golden style chagoi too if possible.

      My current golden corn and karashigoi are small, just got them from PSkoi. Gotta make sure they don't die in the coming years first. I do expect them to get large though, they appear to be going well.

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      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      Well you are on your way to attempting at spawning some koi by 2025 if it all goes well, wish you the best.

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      spkennyva is offline Senior Member
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      First of all, I wish you well with this and please post your progress here so we can all learn from your journey. One of the biggest surprises for me with breeding koi was that the genetics of koi find a way to surprise you with each new crossing. One of the hardest things (for amateur breeders - at least this amateur) is to find a pair that result is a good number of desirable fish. After crossing several different parent sets, I've found that the likelihood of producing a number of decent quality fish is quite low. I'm not say this to dissuade you from trying, but to keep your expectations bounded.

    6. #6
      Matt24's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Primitive View Post
      I'm currently growing out 1 golden corn and 4 karashigoi. I'm hoping to try out some breeding in the future of this setup. My goal is to get some type of chagoi type mutt that is ginrin and large and light in color.

      If some turns out to be ginrin karashigoi i'll be happy.
      If some turns out to be more golden corn with karashigoi blood, there's nothing wrong in that.

      I read that the Taniguchi Golden Corn line uses a 40"+ chagoi blood, and can possibly get big. Maybe some of that genetic will trickle down and can result in some nice Ogon with ginrin.
      Sounds like a fun project. Please show us some pictures of these. I looked up golden corn koi and saw some with a variety of appearances. Are all of your koi (golden corn and karashigoi) fully scaled?

      Although is was not entirely intentional, I used three year olds (17" - 20") in a spawn in 2019.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...owa-Spawn-2019

    7. #7
      Primitive is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Sounds like a fun project. Please show us some pictures of these. I looked up golden corn koi and saw some with a variety of appearances. Are all of your koi (golden corn and karashigoi) fully scaled?

      Although is was not entirely intentional, I used three year olds (17" - 20") in a spawn in 2019.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...owa-Spawn-2019
      My koi are all scaled, I'm not a doitsu person, but maybe I will try one or 2 in the future.

      It's going to be awhile waiting for these to grow out. I have a larger shinoda hi utsuri that should be good to practice in a year when she reaches 3.5yrs. just gotta find a mate.

    8. #8
      Primitive is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by spkennyva View Post
      First of all, I wish you well with this and please post your progress here so we can all learn from your journey. One of the biggest surprises for me with breeding koi was that the genetics of koi find a way to surprise you with each new crossing. One of the hardest things (for amateur breeders - at least this amateur) is to find a pair that result is a good number of desirable fish. After crossing several different parent sets, I've found that the likelihood of producing a number of decent quality fish is quite low. I'm not say this to dissuade you from trying, but to keep your expectations bounded.
      I think the reason why amateurs like ourselves have a hard time is because we are not using 90cm+ parent koi. The Japanese breeders have like 10 pairs they keep in pristine condition for their livelihood to breed annually. They always keep the best parents for themselves. We're breeding koi that are 60cm in our yard, it's not the same.

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Primitive View Post
      I think the reason why amateurs like ourselves have a hard time is because we are not using 90cm+ parent koi. The Japanese breeders have like 10 pairs they keep in pristine condition for their livelihood to breed annually. They always keep the best parents for themselves. We're breeding koi that are 60cm in our yard, it's not the same.
      I don't know what I would do with the zillions of fry I'd get from breeding 90 cm koi. Like most of us here (with a couple of exceptions), I don't have a big mud pond for growing out huge numbers. Last time I spawned a 70 cm female, it was quite a challenge to deal with them all. That said, they do keep the best ones over there.

    10. #10
      spkennyva is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Primitive View Post
      I think the reason why amateurs like ourselves have a hard time is because we are not using 90cm+ parent koi. The Japanese breeders have like 10 pairs they keep in pristine condition for their livelihood to breed annually. They always keep the best parents for themselves. We're breeding koi that are 60cm in our yard, it's not the same.
      They also have multi-generational knowledge to pull from and lines they have been crafting for decades, so much of the guesswork has been done long ago. Of course they are likely tweaking existing lines and creating new lines, but a good amount of their core business that has pretty solid and somewhat predictable outcomes (as much as any outcome in animal husbandry) . I'm certainly not suggesting this is easy for the famous Japanese breeders - there is still tons of hard work.

      Regarding size, at least for me, that is a trait that is one of the easier ones to predict. What I mean is that "most" fish I raise, will (eventually) approach the size of their parents (there are exceptions). That said, I have nothing that's 90 cm, and I'm not really targeting that metric. I suspect that if 90 cm is your goal that too would be difficult to predict (this might be where karashigoi can really help). Again, size is not a key trait for me, so this might skew my perspective. Things that are hard for me to achieve in large numbers are: skin quality, scalation, color richness, and pattern. Every once in a while I get lucky

    11. #11
      Primitive is offline Senior Member
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      Took some time this morning to net the 5 Koi I'm talking about.

      Goldencorn is about 6-7", the rest are around 10-11".


    12. #12
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      Looks like you have some good candidates to work with. That smallest one is really loaded with ginrin! Thick bodied too. Do you think it is female or a chunky male? I'm thinking of which one(s) you might cross it with.

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      Yellow koi are my favorite. I had not heard of the Golden Corn line. It’s been fun doing some reading to catch up on them and see the one you got.

      You’ve assembled beautiful selection of koi. They are remarkably calm when you’re handling them. Good luck with your project and do keep us posted on their interim growth and then what happens when they actually spawn and you start seeing the results.

    14. #14
      Matt24's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by KingstonKoi View Post
      ... They are remarkably calm when you’re handling them. ...
      Yeah, my wife and I both noticed that right off. Very casual.

    15. #15
      Primitive is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Looks like you have some good candidates to work with. That smallest one is really loaded with ginrin! Thick bodied too. Do you think it is female or a chunky male? I'm thinking of which one(s) you might cross it with.
      Yeah the Golden corn has very high quality ginrin and very good coverage.
      I also have another tiny darker green ginrin chagoi i picked up recently, too hard to net because it keeps hiding, hopefully that one grows up nicely as well.

      Next time I'll catch the golden corn to see if it's male or female. If it's a good female with that ginrin and grows up with the right body and pattern, it can potentially be a show grade koi. But that koi is a little shy compared to some of the other ones.

    16. #16
      Primitive is offline Senior Member
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      Thought I'd show a little update on these 5.big growth in the last 2 and a half months.
      The mango is a little over 17" now, so grew about 7" in less than 3 months.

    17. #17
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      Amazing growth! A couple of inches per month for young koi is excellent growth, and these are well above that. The big one seems to be lightening up in color too, moving toward yellow from orange.

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