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    Thread: Koi Gulping Air at Bubblers

    1. #21
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Your KH should be good for now. Try to maintain a value of more than 80ppm, though I prefer above 150ppm. As asked, what is the ammonia and pH with the high range pH test kit. Both potentially can burn the gills of the koi causing irritation.


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    2. #22
      fly4koi is offline Senior Member
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      Do you know how much water are circulated through your bio filter? I've read somewhere that people suggested at a minimal once every 3-4 hours.
      How many fish do you have and how big of a pond?
      Last edited by fly4koi; 06-25-2022 at 06:47 PM.

    3. #23
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      Hi everyone,
      Here are some numbers:
      pH - 7.5
      Ammonia - 0.25-0.5
      Nitrite - 0
      KH - 140 - 200 (11 drops)

      Koi seem to be doing OK. I still add a half cup of baking soda at night.I backwash the filter once a week and the uv light is off.
      Waiting for the pond to cycle. Oh, and I add microbe lift pl once a week.

      Is it just a waiting game now?

    4. #24
      trapper is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alfastud75 View Post
      My KH test kit came and I am in the 140-200 range (11 drops). I stopped adding baking soda. The koi were doing well, but after a few rain storms and a water exchange, they seem to be reverting. I checked the KH and I am still in the 140-200 range (9-10) drops).

      Should I continue to add baking soda?
      What type KH test kit are you using? It doesn't sound right to have the same result after a water change and a few rain storms, mine always is lower after a good rain and or a large exchange of water..

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alfastud75 View Post
      Hi everyone,
      Here are some numbers:
      pH - 7.5
      Ammonia - 0.25-0.5
      Nitrite - 0
      KH - 140 - 200 (11 drops)

      Koi seem to be doing OK. I still add a half cup of baking soda at night.I backwash the filter once a week and the uv light is off.
      Waiting for the pond to cycle. Oh, and I add microbe lift pl once a week.

      Is it just a waiting game now?
      Each drop is 17.86 ppm, so if the color changes on the 11th drop it technically would be somewhere between 178.6 ppm (10 drops)
      and 196.46 ppm (11 drops).
      Just fwiw.
      --Steve


    6. #26
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      Hi trapper,
      The KH dropped to about 9 drops, but I after a few days of dosing baking soda, the KH increased to 11 drops (140 t0 200).

      Thank you icu2.
      Am I doing everything I am supposed to? Is there anything else I should be doing?

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alfastud75 View Post
      Thank you icu2.
      Am I doing everything I am supposed to? Is there anything else I should be doing?
      1200 gallons with a single pressure filter and your number of fish will be a challenge to keep ammonia under control.
      I'd keep feed amounts down to help with the ammonia. There's a saying... "feed the filters, not the fish", meaning feed only
      as much as your filters can process. I'd keep a product like Safe (similar to Vanquish or Amquel you've been using but
      cheaper per usage) on hand to handle any increase in ammonia or nitrite.

      Going forward I'd just keep doing what you are doing (minus the bottled bacteria... I don't think it is worth its price) and keep
      an eye on parameters. I'd also get a test kit for nitrate. Nitrate will be formed as the last step in the nitrification process and once
      you see an increase in it, it is a good indication that your cycle is complete and you are at a point where your pond is trying to
      keep up with the ammonia present. Here's a chart that is an example of the time frames of how long the process can take:
      (TAN = ammonia (Total Ammonia Nitrogen)

      Name:  nitrification cycle.jpg
Views: 96
Size:  58.0 KB
      --Steve


    8. #28
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alfastud75 View Post
      Hi everyone,
      Here are some numbers:
      pH - 7.5
      Ammonia - 0.25-0.5
      Nitrite - 0
      KH - 140 - 200 (11 drops)

      Koi seem to be doing OK. I still add a half cup of baking soda at night.I backwash the filter once a week and the uv light is off.
      Waiting for the pond to cycle. Oh, and I add microbe lift pl once a week.

      Is it just a waiting game now?
      pH 7.5

      KH 140 -200 (11 drops)

      With baking soda

      Shouldn't that pH be up around 8, 3

      Or I am missing something again.
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    9. #29
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      All good info, thank you.

      I forgot to mention that I got an API KH test kit.

      Also, I have 7 koi. Is that too many for the pond?

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alfastud75 View Post
      All good info, thank you.

      I forgot to mention that I got an API KH test kit.

      Also, I have 7 koi. Is that too many for the pond?
      250 gal per koi is the go-to number.

      I wouldn't worry about pH hitting 8.3, do you measure your nitrate and see increase?

    11. #31
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      I've seen the same 250 gallon/fish guideline but it shouldn't be used as any kind of rule imo.
      It depends on the size of fish, amount of feed, turnover rate and quality of filtration, etc. Poor filtration could easily
      double the number too. Base it on how your pond is working or not.
      --Steve


    12. #32
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      Are you on well or city water? Check your source water parameters to see if they are good or low
      The will of God will not take you where the grace of God cannot keep you. .....
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    13. #33
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      Your PH is fine

    14. #34
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      Hi there, sorry I am late to the discussion. I relatively recently started checking the dissolved oxygen in the pond water. In a nutshell it confirmed that if you have plants in the water, and almost 100% of mine just have their roots in the water and not the whole plant, then during the night they guzzle oxygen rather than release it. Without the 60l/min air pump going to the BD the dissolved oxygen during the day with a water temperature of 86f was a satisfactory 8mg/l (measured with aJBL liquid test kit, as I asked on this forum about digital testers and the consensus was they were too expensive for the reliability offered) but if measured at dawn it would drop below 3mg/l (a good level for koi is 5 mg/l and above). With good aeration it is back to 8mg/l throughout. So if you are wondering if you have enough oxygen in the water I think the best way is to actually measure it AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE IN THE MORNING
      Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 07-01-2022 at 01:08 PM.
      46000 liters with only wetland filtration

    15. #35
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      Ah, I do have some plants with just the roots in the water. The koi were at the bubblers last night but seem fine this morning. KH this morning was 16 drops, which seems pretty high.
      Ammonia seems to be creeping up to 0.5, nitrite is still 0. Not gonna feed them till the pond cycles, which it doesn’t seem like it wants to do.

      My filter is pulling a decent amount of algae out and the pond is not clear. My phosphate level is very high and I heard that promotes algae growth. I didn’t think that has anything to do with my oxygen issue, or does it? How do I get the phosphate level down and what product should I use?
      Thanks again everyone for the info!

    16. #36
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      You probably do not have a kh issue and I would stop using BS and see what your true kh is since now you have the test kit. Low kh does not create a low oxygen condition in koi ponds that I am aware of. However low oxygen does affect your filter as the bacteria require 4 parts oxygen to perform 1 part oxidation. . ph can drop with low oxygen indirectly and is possibly the reason why you have a reading of 7.0ph. And your koi verify this as they are gulping for air. Your source water might be low in oxygen and there are other reasons why your pond can be low in oxygen. Even elevation affects this. Your koi are gulping in the morning because the algae, plants, fish and bacteria are using up what little you have at night. Daytime the plants add oxygen. Your ammonia issues could be from a variety of reasons but you really need to post nitrate levels as this helps in figuring out how your filter is working effectively. IF the filtration is working well and you have low ammonia numbers contently. Than the reasons are the filter is unable to remove all of the ammonia caused by overfeeding, large fish load, low oxygen,decomposition of algae or plants or any other debris in your pond or combination of all. I found this. Please read https://pondinformer.com/how-to-lowe...nia-fish-pond/
      Last edited by kdh; 07-03-2022 at 09:34 AM.

    17. #37
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      Is the pond bottom clear of all the rotting dead decomposing plant life that plants shed during their life cycle.

      Could hydrogen sulfide, be being released and being heavier than air, displacing the air/oxygen which should be being absorbed into the pond

      water to satisfy the needs of the fish and the biological bacteria living in the filter.

      Maybe they have been reduced in numbers and why the filter will not kick in.

      Are the their stones and gravel which allow the decomposing materials to become lodged in ?

      Do you have a bottom drain?

      Has the B D pipe work been cleaned out?

      Would it be worth your while to re-house the 7 or 8 fish dump all the water and see what your pond actually consists of?

      What is the water turn overrate of the pond pump?
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    18. #38
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      The bottom is of the pond is somewhat clear, but it could probably be better. I did throw rocks in to give the bacteria a media to grow off of, which seemed to work initially, but I’m not so sure now. Can I remove the rocks from the pond and still get it to cycle?

      The koi seem to be doing well but my water has gone from clear to cloudy. I also believe I have string algae? growing on the walls. My phosphate level is really high and that is what I attribute to this.

      What product should I use to reduce the phosphate level?

      In the past, the professional I hired to get the pond going used a sack with something in it to reduce the phosphate.

      All suggestions are much appreciated, thank you

    19. #39
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      Phosphates are generally not a problem, and more expensive to control than the improvements attained. Green water algae requires ammonia to thrive, and are actually doing you a favor in controlling the ammonia level. As the filter finishes cycling, the green water algae will disappear. When it comes to oxygen levels, green water algae, like most plant materials, produces oxygen during daylight hours through photosynthesis. But, at night the cycle reverses and the oxygen is taken in by the algae and carbon dioxide is generated. What this means is that the oxygen level in the daytime is high and so is the pH, since acidic carbon dioxide is low, but at night the pH falls as does the oxygen level. Having good aeration, drives off the carbon dioxide at night keeping the pH up, and also increases the oxygen level.

      String algae is a problem in that, besides appearance, it will break off and clog impellers. Good carpet algae on the sides does not have the length of string algae and is actually good for pond maintenance, providing a source of photosynthesis produced oxygen, a source of food for the fish through grazing, and an eco system for smaller critters that the fish thrive on.

      If the filter doesn't cycle within a couple of months, clearing the water, eliminating measurable ammonia and nitrite, it is probably a case of too many fish, too much food, or both for the size of the filter. Total and complete cycling really never finishes, as fish become bigger, seasons change and fish become more or less active, eating more or less with the seasons, but it should achieve a balance that keeps the ammonia and nitrite levels below measurable numbers.


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    20. #40
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      You really need to provide nitrate reading.

      Phosphate can either come from the source of your water, or it's ground runoff likely from fertilizer.

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