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    Thread: 2022 Yamabuki Ogon cross Gin Rin Platinum Ogon

    1. #1
      spkennyva is offline Senior Member
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      2022 Yamabuki Ogon cross Gin Rin Platinum Ogon

      Round two of Yamabuki Ogon cross Gin Rin Platinum Ogon

      Spawn May 21, 2022

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    2. #2
      Matt24's Avatar
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      Congratulations! It's always exciting to know the whole process has been launched. Are the parent koi a lot bigger than they were two years ago? Does it look like more eggs this time?

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      spkennyva is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      Congratulations! It's always exciting to know the whole process has been launched. Are the parent koi a lot bigger than they were two years ago? Does it look like more eggs this time?
      The male has definitely gotten bigger. The female has grown some, but last year a terrapin got into the pond and attacked her, which seemed to set her growth back. She has mostly recovered, but there is lingering damage. She's still very pretty and swims well. There is definitely a size disparity between them, but the male seems to recognize this. Also being the only two fish in the tank seems to help keep it from being too rough. I'd say the egg amount this year is slightly more than in 2020. My system is really not great at handling huge quantities of eggs, so smaller numbers are welcomed.

      This is spawning number 4 for the season (not counting the uncontrolled stuff in the main pond - been a crazy season so far!!). Needless to say, I've been a little busy....

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by spkennyva View Post
      ... This is spawning number 4 for the season (not counting the uncontrolled stuff in the main pond - been a crazy season so far!!). Needless to say, I've been a little busy....
      Wow 4 spawns! Sounds like something Orlando would do! I guess you are busy! I've never even tried to raise two spawns at a time. When or if you get a few moments, we look forward to hearing about your other ones too.

    5. #5
      Orlando is offline Senior Member
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      Would you consider in the future crossing your metalics with something like a kujaku?

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      spkennyva is offline Senior Member
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      I'm certainly open to suggestions. I did cross this same male Yamabuki with a Kujaku last year and the results were mixed. Please tell me more on your suggestion.

      Thanks

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      Quote Originally Posted by spkennyva View Post
      I'm certainly open to suggestions. I did cross this same male Yamabuki with a Kujaku last year and the results were mixed. Please tell me more on your suggestion.

      Thanks
      Well just thinking here but my thoughts would be to try and produce a koi that would retain kujaku patern with the pine coning effect but trending more to yellow, I realize the odds would be low and you would have to be very patient in the first few cullings so the few opportunities don't get pass over maybe just a thought for next year.

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      Quote Originally Posted by spkennyva View Post
      I'm certainly open to suggestions. I did cross this same male Yamabuki with a Kujaku last year and the results were mixed. Please tell me more on your suggestion.

      Thanks
      Well just thinking here but my thoughts would be to try and produce a koi that would retain kujaku patern with the pine coning effect but trending more to yellow, I realize the odds would be low and you would have to be very patient in the first few cullings so the few opportunities don't get pass over maybe just a thought for next year.

    9. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      Well just thinking here but my thoughts would be to try and produce a koi that would retain kujaku patern with the pine coning effect but trending more to yellow, I realize the odds would be low and you would have to be very patient in the first few cullings so the few opportunities don't get pass over maybe just a thought for next year.
      I did not get any like that when I crossed my yamabuki hariwake and doitsu kujaku last year. But when the same two koi were in my 2012 spawn I did get one with that "pine coning effect but trending more to yellow". Post #8 of the thread below has two pictures of it at two years old.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...t=doitsu+spawn

    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      I did not get any like that when I crossed my yamabuki hariwake and doitsu kujaku last year. But when the same two koi were in my 2012 spawn I did get one with that "pine coning effect but trending more to yellow". Post #8 of the thread below has two pictures of it at two years old.
      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...t=doitsu+spawn
      I should add that a direct crossing of two scaled koi should have better odds of getting such a yellow kujaku. My two crossings involved Doitsu fish (one linear SsNn, one leather ssNn). So only one out or six (16.7%) of the resulting babies would even be fully scaled Ssnn (1/2 * 1/3).

      Also I used multiple males in those two spawns, 4 in the first one and 2 in the second one. So that makes the odds of a given baby from each of those two spawns being both fully scaled and from the right male roughly 4.2% (1/6 * 1/4) and 8.3% (1/6 * 1/2) respectively. Of course some male koi are larger or more aggressive or more fertile than others, but this is just assuming these all had about the same odds of being the dad.

      So your odds if you tried to do this intentionally should be much better. So it surprises me a little that you did not get one last time you crossed them.

      EDIT: Sean, now that I look more closely at the photos from your previous spawn, I am wondering if you have some. It's difficult to tell from the small photos and the angles. But some may have the yellow pine-coning effect. However some may be all yellow (no pattern) or with only yellow on the head, not the body, or with sparse or faint pattern. You've seen them with your eyes. So what do you think?
      Last edited by Matt24; 06-08-2022 at 12:08 AM.

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    11. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post

      EDIT: Sean, now that I look more closely at the photos from your previous spawn, I am wondering if you have some. It's difficult to tell from the small photos and the angles. But some may have the yellow pine-coning effect. However some may be all yellow (no pattern) or with only yellow on the head, not the body, or with sparse or faint pattern. You've seen them with your eyes. So what do you think?
      Hi Matt,

      I have not seen any of the fry from the 2020 spawn that had the "pine cone" scale coloration. There were a few that the base color (below the gin rin) seemed darker than the others. These "dark" ones were uniformly much smaller than their siblings. I found this kind of odd. I guess it could have been just a coincidence, or I just happened to lose the bigger siblings. They are quite interesting, so I saved all of the (maybe 4).

      Now the Kujaku crossed with a Yamabuki from 2021 has lots of fish that resemble Kujaku, but none that seem really great.

    12. #12
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      Here's an update on one of the groups I'm working on this season. There was an "operator error" with an upstream value left open allowing older fry onto the tank. This resulted in a lot of predation, so yield was low. I didn't discover this issue until it was too late. It's always a learning experience... Anyway, there are a few nice ones.

      Note the first picture is before culling deformities (and predation damage - missing tail).

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    13. #13
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      You have some nice ones there, the head is super clean on the one you are holding. That's exactly what I mean when I say (I start looking for anyone's with the motor taken out) tail removed so they are easier to catch later.

    14. #14
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      Here are two more from 2022. Notice the scalation difference. I saw several of this type in the 2020 spawn. Some have turned out very nice.

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    15. #15
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      Do you have photos of the parents
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      I have pictures, but not good pictures. Here's the female This image is somehow distorted, as she looks much better.

      And the male is the Yamabuki in this picture. These two seem to consistently make nice offspring.

    17. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by spkennyva View Post
      ... There was an "operator error" with an upstream value left open allowing older fry onto the tank. This resulted in a lot of predation, so yield was low. ...
      With tiny fry, there sure are a lot of things that can go wrong. Good thing they make a lot of them! You've got several nice specimens.

    18. #18
      Primitive is offline Senior Member
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      Will the white heads become yellow later?

    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt24 View Post
      With tiny fry, there sure are a lot of things that can go wrong. Good thing they make a lot of them! You've got several nice specimens.
      Thanks Matt! Yes, lots can go wrong, and I seem to explore new failure modes each season.

    20. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by Primitive View Post
      Will the white heads become yellow later?
      I have some from previous spawns that have retained white heads with the yellow body, but the majority seem to transition to all yellow. However, several will remain totally platinum - just like the mother.

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