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  • Results 1 to 14 of 14

    Thread: Showa from Mitsunori Isa

    1. #1
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Showa from Mitsunori Isa

      Just browsing what my retailer has still available that may tempt me when I go to get the fish I have already booked, the only one would be #1, the largest of the two Showa. 22", currently asking for €1780.
      There seems to be a reasonable amount of sumi still to come up and the hi should stretch rather than shrink?
      I quite like a more noticeable pigmentation rather than the lighter kindai type.
      Worth considering to try make a deal?
      https://youtu.be/0bYvBd1CqpU
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      Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 01-16-2022 at 03:26 PM.
      46000 liters with only wetland filtration

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    2. #2
      KTownKoinut is offline Senior Member
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      To get the ball roll'n.....But I'm not an expert..............but that looks good to me!!! Just going out on a limb........The sumi should come in nicely! The Hi usually 'shrinks', from what I've always heard. The Odome is clean........ Beauti!!!!!

      See if anyone flat'nz us now!

    3. #3
      oceanmann1869 is offline Junior Member
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      wow im a total rookie still but those young koi have really heavy and thick body conformation excited if you get any to watch growth on them

    4. #4
      kevins2ooo is offline Senior Member
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      #1 is definitely the safer bet here, still have tons of room for sumi to grow. The price is very good, be them male or female.

    5. #5
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      The Kohaku is the number one for for me.

      Love it.

      Look at the body shape behind the pecks.

      Is that a touch of sumi

      And a pattern to go with it.
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    6. #6
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      The Kohaku is the number one for for me.

      Love it.

      Look at the body shape behind the pecks.

      Is that a touch of sumi

      And a pattern to go with it.
      It does look sturdy but I have a nice Godan kohaku from Hoshikin coming my way, body not as powerful but shiroji clean as a whistle and the hi is something else. I'll have to see in person how they look, already blown the budget with the 3 fish I booked so I would not commit to anything else beforehand
      46000 liters with only wetland filtration

    7. #7
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      If I have to find a fault with these showa is that the Sumi is "kasane Sumi" where the Sumi is staked on top of the beni, or Mr Isa would say the beni is stacked on top of the Sumi while he is seeking the two to be distinct as much as possible. I am sure nevertheless that these fish will look great once they are 5-6 years old and the Sumi has established itself
      46000 liters with only wetland filtration

    8. #8
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      The more I look at these two showa the less convinced I am about the pattern, I know it should be the last thing to evaluate but...that Sumi is really almost all "kasane", stacked on top of the red. Anyway in a month a shipment of Tosai including Isa showa will arrive so I may roll the dice on one or more of those. I have gathered that what sumi is visible at that stage could mostly disappear and may have to wait another 2-3 years for it to come back and possibly be quite different, but as long as the Sumi is predominantly on white areas, even if it is Kage Sumi (with a black root of the scales), I think I will try my luck.
      This is what should be arriving first:

      Isa jumbo tosai 30 cm - €270
      Sakai yellow magic Karashigoi - €60
      Kanno mix - €30
      Oyama Big scale - €65
      Oyama golden dragon - €100

      Of the others I could consider one of those karashigoi from Sakai, I don't know much about this (sub)variety, I gather they are wagoi? -I already have a Doitsu and a Gin Rin karashi and a Yamabuki ogon so maybe a regular scaled yellow would complete the poker. I take it Sakai is the kosher SFF rather than Sakai Co. Ltd (Marugen koi farm)
      No idea what the "golden dragons" are like, it seems there is a new "variety" appearing on a daily basis - maybe we should all stick to gosanke
      46000 liters with only wetland filtration

    9. #9
      kevins2ooo is offline Senior Member
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      Honestly those are great prices for what they are.

      The past year and this year in particular, dealers have been raising the prices by, I would say, 30-40%. They could say it's inflation, rising operating cost from Covid related issues...but customers are still the same customers. I feel bad for the dealers but customers are taking a hit as well in this economy...

    10. #10
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevins2ooo View Post
      Honestly those are great prices for what they are.

      The past year and this year in particular, dealers have been raising the prices by, I would say, 30-40%. They could say it's inflation, rising operating cost from Covid related issues...but customers are still the same customers. I feel bad for the dealers but customers are taking a hit as well in this economy...
      I think this was discussed in a post a few months ago. There are a few different factors at play but mainly the fact that Japan has been inaccessible for the last two years (so the need to rely on intermediaries in Japan and also some issues with air-freight availability) and there are more people coming into the hobby particularly in South East Asia. There is definitely more demand for the "brand" fish like Isa or Sakai and wholesalers are having to jump through more hoops in order to obtain the stock they want from these farms, according to the biggest importer in the UK not so much a hike in purchase prices but mostly having to purchase them earlier than usual and having to keep them for longer and in heated tanks before passing them on to retailers, so that has a cost. I have no idea how the other "blue chips" like Dainichi or Torazo are trading, I suppose there are more people that have a few tens of thousands to spare. At the bottom end of the market there is greater demand for "ordinary" japanese tosai from countries like Vietnam but according to my retailer over here who gets his stock from an Japanese intermediary the prices have not changed that much, actually last year he was managing to offer these to customers at a slightly lower price.
      Unfortunately I live in an area of Italy that is devoid of any decent koi retailers and as shipping is either unavailable or unreliable it involves a 4-5 hour drive each way to go see a fish in view of buying it so I need to be fully convinced I like that fish before committing to spend another $2000
      Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 01-25-2022 at 01:40 PM.
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    11. #11
      kevins2ooo is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sabucchi View Post
      I think this was discussed in a post a few months ago. There are a few different factors at play but mainly the fact that Japan has been inaccessible for the last two years (so the need to rely on intermediaries in Japan and also some issues with air-freight availability) and there are more people coming into the hobby particularly in South East Asia. There is definitely more demand for the "brand" fish like Isa or Sakai and wholesalers are having to jump through more hoops in order to obtain the stock they want from these farms, according to the biggest importer in the UK not so much a hike in purchase prices but mostly having to purchase them earlier than usual and having to keep them for longer and in heated tanks before passing them on to retailers, so that has a cost. I have no idea how the other "blue chips" like Dainichi or Torazo are trading, I suppose there are more people that have a few tens of thousands to spare. At the bottom end of the market there is greater demand for "ordinary" japanese tosai from countries like Vietnam but according to my retailer over here who gets his stock from an Japanese intermediary the prices have not changed that much, actually last year he was managing to offer these to customers at a slightly lower price.
      Unfortunately I live in an area of Italy that is devoid of any decent koi retailers and as shipping is either unavailable or unreliable it involves a 4-5 hour drive each way to go see a fish in view of buying it so I need to be fully convinced I like that fish before committing to spend another $2000
      That makes total sense Paul. I remember reading a dealer's blog saying that many big dealers had ordered way more fish last year than before. I am sure it is not cheap to maintain them for a longer period of time, for both the breeders and dealers. I think I may just have to lower my standard or try a different dealer this year.

    12. #12
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      If possible it is always best to shop around. Nisai should be out of quarentine and ready for sale within the next month or so and by then shipments of Tosai from Japan should be well underway (unless they have already been shipped for the above reasons). As mentioned I can't do a lot of that as I can't be far from home for long (lots of animals and a wife with poor health to look after)
      Anyway if you want some insight from a Koi wholesaler and you have time to spare...https://youtu.be/baeR4dOsidc
      46000 liters with only wetland filtration

    13. #13
      lukef's Avatar
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      Two things
      Fish at that size and price point have had their photos taken several times. I'd ask to see some of those pics.
      Second that "kohaku" is so bad that I had to convince myself that the showas are not of the same lineage. I expect that "beni" to shred. First the head pattern is scaring me the way the beni stops where the skin meets the scales. And then the leading edge of the middle step is a complete and total mess. Dealers usually group fish together based on pattern or quality.... if those showa are the same "quality" as that kohaku...really?
      Third, the pattern on that "kohaku" is about as attractive as a piece of gum on the bottom of my flip-flop.
      The dark smudge is actually redeeming quality.... In a year, whoever buys that koi will scowl at it. In 4 years it'll be a different fish all together. But who knows what? An entertainingly-patterned shiro utsuri?
      The same can be said for those SHowa. They are going to change...just how?
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    14. #14
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by lukef View Post
      Two things
      Fish at that size and price point have had their photos taken several times. I'd ask to see some of those pics.
      Second that "kohaku" is so bad that I had to convince myself that the showas are not of the same lineage. I expect that "beni" to shred. First the head pattern is scaring me the way the beni stops where the skin meets the scales. And then the leading edge of the middle step is a complete and total mess. Dealers usually group fish together based on pattern or quality.... if those showa are the same "quality" as that kohaku...really?
      Third, the pattern on that "kohaku" is about as attractive as a piece of gum on the bottom of my flip-flop.
      The dark smudge is actually redeeming quality.... In a year, whoever buys that koi will scowl at it. In 4 years it'll be a different fish all together. But who knows what? An entertainingly-patterned shiro utsuri?
      The same can be said for those SHowa. They are going to change...just how?

      Maybe a gorgeous Sanke

      No mention of the body, mouth?

      Do us a favor, photograph your collection will you.

      Last edited by coolwon; 02-23-2022 at 08:20 AM.
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