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    Thread: Same KH &GH different PH

    1. #1
      daniel95 is offline Member
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      Same KH &GH different PH

      Hi all,

      Wonder if you could help understand why I have two ponds with matching KH & GH but run different PH?

      Both ponds KH values are 6-7 drops (107-125) and GH is 10 (179) but Pond one PH is 8 and Pond two runs 8.8. With vary PH at am vs pm with no major fluctuations.

      Pond one is a poly pond which has been running roughly a year longer, with a larger filter system due to heavier bio load. While pond 2 is a intex pool with smaller filter to suit a medium bio load. Never issues with ammonia and nitrates are low.

      Tips on getting pond two to run at a PH of 8 like the other pond? or why it is different? I know there's no issues with it but would like to bring it closer to 8.

      Thankyou!

    2. #2
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      I would bet on the two different liner media.

      Fiber glass higher

      Cement product lower.
      Last edited by coolwon; 11-13-2021 at 08:41 AM.
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    3. #3
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
      Roddy Conrad is offline The Koiphen Chemist
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      Try adding to pond 2 two pounds of calcium chloride flake per 1000 gallons to precipitate the carbonate ions that are driving the pH to 8.8. That should drop the pH of pond 2 closer to 8.
      Your koiphen chemist and environmental scientist.

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      I would bet on the two different liner media.

      Fiber glass higher

      Cement product lower.
      One pond is plastic liner and the other pond is a poly pond?

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      Try adding to pond 2 two pounds of calcium chloride flake per 1000 gallons to precipitate the carbonate ions that are driving the pH to 8.8. That should drop the pH of pond 2 closer to 8.
      Brilliant, will give this a shot. Does this need to be added in stages or can be added all at once?

    6. #6
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      First pond is more mature than the other. Less mature pond will get more algae driving up the ph.
      Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. ---- Marthe Troly-Curtin

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    7. #7
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      I would bet on the two different liner media.

      Fiber glass higher

      Cement product lower.


      Fiber glass


      &


      Cement the product are two comparisons of a different pH.
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    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Fiber glass


      &


      Cement the product are two comparisons of a different pH.
      Oh I thought you were talking about my ponds and was confused as I don’t have fibreglass or cement ponds.

    9. #9
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by daniel95 View Post
      Brilliant, will give this a shot. Does this need to be added in stages or can be added all at once?
      Add all at once. PH should drop to low 8 range overnight. Measured kh May drop a little, check kh before and after.
      Your koiphen chemist and environmental scientist.

    10. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      Add all at once. PH should drop to low 8 range overnight. Measured kh May drop a little, check kh before and after.
      Hi Roddy, unfortunately this didn't work. PH still remains at 8.8-8.9 in the afternoons. KH has went from 6-7 drops now to 5. GH has gone from 10 drops to 15.

      Am I best off doing a 100% water change? Or is something internal causing the high PH? The pond is just an intex pool with a filter full of poly strapping and various left over media (ceramic rings, bio balls, random off cuts of plastic & pond matrix). Perhaps I take everything out of the pond and see if I can work out what is causing it?

    11. #11
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Is the pH also that high early morning? If the pH is significantly lower early morning, the issue is more algae growth in the newer pond. Do you observe visually any difference in algae growth, or types of algae?
      Your koiphen chemist and environmental scientist.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Roddy Conrad View Post
      Is the pH also that high early morning? If the pH is significantly lower early morning, the issue is more algae growth in the newer pond. Do you observe visually any difference in algae growth, or types of algae?
      In the morning it is 8.2-8.3. I seem to get lack of algae in this pond actually. I’ve attached a photo of the pond, only the black tub tends to grow algae. And the occasional clump of floating algae. Excuse the pond ugliness, it just holds feeder gold fish and a couple of turtles and is out of sight so visual aren’t important. Only meant to be a 6 month temp setup but never got around to upgrade.
      Name:  9A8CAF58-6910-4F92-A0F9-22C79411545D.jpg
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    13. #13
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      Not sure if pH related, but I recently had scratches on my hands and when I put them in the pond, it stung. I put my hand in the main pond and had no “stings”. Once again my hand went into the intex pool to test my theory and what do we know, it stung.

    14. #14
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      A pH change of 8.2 morning to 8.9 afternoon is not enough swing to cause problems for the fish. With as little algae as the picture shows, algae doesn’t need any control.

      Why the ponds run a slightly different pH certainly is not obvious. My advice is to stop worrying about it since the pH is sufficiently stable and is not causing any issues, and biofiltration is keeping ammonia levels low.
      Your koiphen chemist and environmental scientist.

    15. #15
      *Ci*'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by daniel95 View Post
      Not sure if pH related, but I recently had scratches on my hands and when I put them in the pond, it stung. I put my hand in the main pond and had no “stings”. Once again my hand went into the intex pool to test my theory and what do we know, it stung.
      This sounds like electrical current, perhaps just enough that you only feel it on the sensitive tissue of your scratches. Check your submersible devices, but even properly functioning ones can cause small amounts. I keep a ground wire leading to the water in my settling tank to help mitigate stray current.
      ________________________________________
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    16. #16
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Remove the pieces of drift wood.

      Do a water change.

      Give it some time to settle.

      See if it has any effect on your pH.
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    17. #17
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      Thought I'd buy a brand new pH pen and compare it, plus throw in a cheap one..... I am not sure now.

      The new pH pen was apparently calibrated.

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    18. #18
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      I am stumped
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    19. #19
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by daniel95 View Post
      Thought I'd buy a brand new pH pen and compare it, plus throw in a cheap one..... I am not sure now.

      The new pH pen was apparently calibrated.

      Name:  261827339_659306205446381_2419070464838995141_n.jpg
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      Now I see the primary problem! As a Ph D research chemist for 55 years, acceptable quality pH meters cost about $1000 and required daily recalibration.
      For a koi ponder, if you want dependable pH measurement, purchase “narrow range pH strips” from which dependable pH measurement in typically 0.2 pH steps can be determined. A narrow range pH strip covering the 4.5 to 9 range should do it for you, and are really inexpensive.
      Your koiphen chemist and environmental scientist.

    20. #20
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      I read this as a discrepancy pH between two ponds using the same meter presumably.

      Not the accuracy of the readings collected.

      But why is the pond water pH different between the two ponds with identical KH treatments
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