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    Thread: New pond - how soon /how much to feed??

    1. #1
      Namo_Amituofo is offline Member
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      New pond - how soon /how much to feed??

      Dear all

      I have a question re how soon /how much to feed fish in my new pond - it's a small sleepers pond that holds roughly 4000 litres:

      And apologies in advance about the long post - I wanted to give all the details so people can give me informed advice.

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      More details:

      Fish load - 2 tosai koi measuring just over 1 foot, 2 very large golden tench measuring about 2 feet (1 female which is very bulky/heavy), 1 golden tench measuring 1 foot, 2 small golden tench measuring 6 inches, 2 shubs measuring 8 inches.

      Holding tank - you can see the holding tank in the first photo above - 2000 litres QT with Oase Biotec 5.1 filter and a 3000 lph pump. All above fish had been in the tank for 5 months, putting some good growth over summer. Immediately prior to moving fish, the tank water tested 0 ammonia, trace nitrite (slightest purple tone), 40ppm nitrate, 9 drops KH, water temp 12~15 degrees. Fish were fed once every other day given the cooler temp. I have about 20 litres of Siporax media matured in the tank for 5 months - about 5 litres I 'stuffed' inside a meter long 3" outlet from the filter, and the rest I placed in fine mesh bags and dangled on the shaded edge of the tank above a strong air stone attached to an Oase diffuser.

      New pond construction - 1.03 meter wide x 3.3 meter long x 1.3 meter deep or 4500 litres if filled full. It's the biggest size we could fit into the garden without disrupting the balance of paths around the patio/lawn. Depth is 0.8 meter in the ground, and 0.5 meter above which is held by 5 rows of 100x200 sleepers (treated and painted outside) and existing masonry retaining wall . Due to the long shape, for the bottom 3 rows sleepers I put in 1m long 20mm rebar every 0.4 m around the 3 walls, except the masonry wall. The sleepers sit on 0.4m deep concrete collar and the rebar goes through the collar into the ground. Box weld liner. It is copped with untreated douglas fir sleepers on all sides - with bolts installed to hold child safety net.

      New pond filter - (second hand) Oase Screenex 36000 (like Screenmatic but its a static sieve vs the auto rolling sieve in the Screenmatic version), Oase Aquamax 11500 pump. I know this pump is a bit over the top for my small pond, but I want a higher water flow given my fish stock and how fast the 2 tosai koi can grow in subsequent seasons.

      Move details:

      - Day 1 - In the Oase Screenex filter there are 4 cannisters with zeolite in them - I took out zeolite and put in instead (what I believe is) the most mature Siporax media (from the holding tank QT outlet pipe). I also moved the Oase air stone with diffuser (according to Oase this diffuser helps with bacteria colonisation) I soaked the zeolite in salt water for several days with twice a day salt water changes, and store it for emergency use. I filled the new pond with 10% tap water with dechlor, tested for chlorine (DPD4 tablet - no pink tone), and 10% water from the holding tank. I then moved the 2 smallest 6 inch golden tench to new pond. I then backfilled the holding tank with tap water with dechlor.

      - Day 2 - Seeing the 2 small golden tench behaving normally, I proceeded to move the basket of plants from the holding tank to new pond. I then moved the 2 shubs, and 1 koi from holding tank to new pond. I also transferred additional 20% water from the holding tank, and also added 20% tap water with dechlor - tested for chlorine. At this stage new pond is 60% to full water capacity. I also backfilled the holding tank with tap water and dechlor and tested for Chlorine.

      - Day 3 - water test showed 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite. All moved fish appeared normal and actually more active than in holding tank. I moved the remaining fish (2 large golden tench, 1 medium golden tench and 1 koi) all into the new pond, and transferred water from holding tank until new pond is 80% to full water capacity. I also moved all remaining mesh bags with Siporax media to new pond (also dangling on the edge next to air stone and in the shade). I decommissioned the holding tank, and took the filter sponges out, washed thoroughly in tank water, then put them in mesh bags also in the new pond. I'm hoping all these dangling mesh bags would provide good healthy bacteria to avoid new pond syndrome when the liner walls begin to mature.

      - Day 4 (today) - All fish behave normally. water test 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite. 7 drops KH which I thought is a little on the low side given next week is forecasted to rain heavily all week - so added some bicarb to bring to 9 drops KH, also added some Kusuri clay. Water temp 14 degrees.

      I previously planned to move fish over the course of a few weeks. But what I realised was - as I took more and more 'furniture' from the holding tank (air stone, diffuser, and the plants) - the tank became quite bland and the remaining fish no longer had all the 'cover'/hiding places they had before and appeared more shy. Also seeing their mates got netted one by one was stressful... Last, I thought there was merit to accelerate the move when water temp is still decent (12~15 degrees) with a few more days of warmer than usual weather forecasted. I fear it will get colder very soon and wanted to give fish/filter more 'warmer days' to settle in.

      My question is - how soon should I start to feed the fish (and how much/frequently) assuming water test 0 ammonia and 0 nitrate again tomorrow (Day 5)? The smaller fish that got moved first weren't fed for 5 days and the bigger fish weren't fed for 4 days. In the holding tank there was a thin layer of velvety algea all around the walls which they were snacking on. The new pond obviously has just butyl liner that is brand spanking new!

      All fish had been very well fed throughout summer/autumn. 1 koi and the biggest female golden tech got so thick and I wonder if they were egg bound. I plan to fast them from late Nov when first frost hit and water temp drops to less than 8 degrees - all the way till March.

      Any advice would be really appreciated.
      Namo Amituofo
      Last edited by Namo_Amituofo; 10-16-2021 at 04:29 PM.

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    2. #2
      One Poet's Garden's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Namo_Amituofo View Post
      My question is - how soon should I start to feed the fish
      Namo,

      I'm not an expert, so I hope others will pop in. I will say the conventional wisdom 'round these parts is to stop feeding when the water gets down to 10c. I'm under the impression some even stop feeding - or at least change what they feed - at 13c. So my question is, 'do you really need to even feed them?'

      That, of course, is the advice for koi. As for the golden tench? I wouldn't wish to hazard a guess, as I've never even seen one. But your post got me reading about them, and now I want a couple for my pond. Alas, I'm not sure one can find them here, darn it...

      Best,

      Bill

    3. #3
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      I would err on the side of caution and feed very little if any at all. Your fish have been well fed so far, considering the temperatures will be coming down and consequent reduced metabolism your fish will definitely not be starving. If possible I would start testing for nitrates (also in your tap-water).

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      Thank you Bill for the advice! I did change to wheatgerm feed a couple of weeks ago (alternating between wheatgerm floaters, and sinking sturgeon food for the small golden tench which don't surface feed yet). Golden tench is a very interesting species and allegedly they're tough as boots. Very hard to come by a large size as they grow so slowly. See attached pic - 1 big female and 1 big male golden tench. the orange koi is 1 just over 1 foot and it is a tosai red Karashigoi. The female one is very sensitive to 'impact' always gets bruised here and there but recovers within a few days, and her fins have been showing pink colour now and then when stressed.

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      Last edited by Namo_Amituofo; 10-17-2021 at 03:26 PM.

    5. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sabucchi View Post
      I would err on the side of caution and feed very little if any at all. Your fish have been well fed so far, considering the temperatures will be coming down and consequent reduced metabolism your fish will definitely not be starving. If possible I would start testing for nitrates (also in your tap-water).
      Thank you I'll heed on that good advice! Temp forecasted to drop to 4 degrees next weekend.

      Interestingly what would you say is the merit in testing for nitrates? I used to test nitrates each time I tested ammonia/nitrite/KH - but struggled to see the point of doing this - especially given the nitrate test bottle/tube need so much shaking! My tap water usually tests 20ppm and pond water 40~80ppm - during the warmest days it tested 80ppm. I have some large iris and horsetail plants that are absolutely thriving.

    6. #6
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Hi, did you mention a lot of shaking because you are using the API nitrate test? I tended to use the nitrate test just to check water was not getting too loaded with waste, also checked the tap water to make sure the waste was not in the water from the start. Although I was born in Epsom I live in Italy, pond water up until last week was 22C, then plenty of cold rain and it plummeted. Just like clockwork at 12C my Koi stop eating, if it eases up to 13 some start to nibble. BTW plants can really remove a lot of waste, the two oversized bogs on my pond (that has no other filter) keep nitrates and phosphates at undetectable levels even if I give 10kg a month of high protein pellets - so now I check nitrates and phosphates just to make sure the plants are "doing their thing"

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      10KG food a month!! Your pond must be the size of a mini lake

      I fed one pitch of 3mm sturgeon food yesterday afternoon (water temp 13 degrees) - and this morning the pond surface had lots of bubbles/foam around the plants. There were a little foam in the 4 corners before but I learned this can be normnal for a new liner, and my filter outlet goes straight into water without any shower (Oase 3" outlet) causing some splashing.

      I skimmed some of the foam off with a net, then tested the water - 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite - but I could see the nitrite test colour was not 'perfect turquoise' like in the past few days - so think the bacteria is doing some work to convert ammonia into nitrite.

      Tomorrow is forecasted to be a warmer day with air temp hitting 17 degrees - so I'm thinking of throwing a pinch of wheatgerm floaters and see what happens to foam/nitrite.

      Any idea if the foam is caused by new liner or a the tiny pinch of 3mm sturgeon food I throw in yesterday (mostly for the benefit of small golden tench which won't surface feed yet - albeit most got gobbled by koi and shubs.

      The foaming increased massively overnight - I first thought neighbours throw soap into it! I skimmed the foam with the net and smelled it - can't smell anything. I even thought if this could be spawning so late in the season? My holding tank has not netting/brushes in water to encourage spawn, but the new pond has a large piece of fine netting wrapped around the top of a PVC tube frame to support the plants.

      I know I have the option to not feed between now and spring next year - the reason I'd like to experiment feeding a little (I really mean a little pinch, like a couple of teaspoonfuls) - is I heard this can help beneficial bacterial to establish more quickly in a new pond (vs no feeding at all) by giving the bacteria more 'food' - so long as water test 0 ammonia and nitrite is below 0.25ppm.

      Or is this the wrong approach??
      Last edited by Namo_Amituofo; 10-18-2021 at 06:07 AM.

    8. #8
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Foam is probably caused by organic compounds starting to build up. Not uncommon in young ponds. If you still have a return splashing in from some height (or a waterfall or fountain) that can also increase the foaming.
      My pond holds 46000 liters so just over 10000 UK gal, 25 koi up to 60cm - + 7 little baby koi mutts and already ordering from the new stock starting to come out of Japan

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      Wow that’s a pond ten times the size of mine . I came home to find the foaming completely gone and water temp at 15D. Fish looked a lot more active. Ammonia 0 and nitrite 0 (from this morning’s slight purple tint back to pure turquoise) - so I threw in two pinches 3mm sinking food - all gone quickly. Will see what the water test is like in the morning and if any more foaming.

      I vaguely recall reading somewhere ‘feed the filter as opposed to feed the fish’ - please could someone correct me if this is totally wrong.

      Also re plants - I once read somewhere (maybe on this forum) MankeSanke reckons plants absorbs ammonia as nurtrients easier (day and night) than nitrate which requires photosynthesis which can only happen during good daylight. I wonder if my big basket of iris and horsetails (which are growing like crazy) and the bacteria around the basket is the real hero here for 0 ammonia for what is otherwise a new pond and new filter.

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      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      I am really pleased with how the plants are working to filter my pond, and yes I also recall reading that plants take up ammonia more easily than nitrates. The main drawback that is reported about using plants is that their roots and the medium they are planted in eventually will get clogged up with muck. On a small scale if you have planted in pond baskets and with inert media like gravel you can always lift the baskets out and flush the muck. Quite a few people implement this kind of filtration as advised by Dr Novak to harness anoxic filtration, my big basket of Iris pseudacorus was set up this way when it was in a goldfish tub (also useful to keep pseudacorus contained as it tends to grow like a thug). As much as the anoxic baskets worked for my goldfish tubs for the big pond I decided to use plain gravel as the advantages of using cat litter and laterite in my opinion were outweighed by the not so practical aspects of implementing it on a large scale (and also what is the point of having plants and anoxic bacteria working "in opposite ways"). I have yet to see how winter temperatures will affect the plant filtration (but as it gets colder there should be less food and fish waste to deal with). Anyway I am motivated to build a pond cover not only to protect the fish but also all the plants.
      Keep the updates coming about your pond

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