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  • Results 1 to 6 of 6

    Thread: Koi on bottom of pond - ulcers on underside

    1. #1
      ebrande is offline Junior Member
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      Koi on bottom of pond - ulcers on underside

      Hi,

      I have been struggling with a 20" koi sitting at the bottom of the pond. A lot of advice I got was to feed peas becuase it was likely a digestive issue. No other fish have any symptoms, her fins are not clamped, no flashing, but it seems to take her a lot of effort to move around. She does sort of look for food on the bottom, but the others snap it up first. This has gone on for about 2 months, at first I thought it was spawning. Water quality has been good, Ammonia 0, Nitrate and Nitrite 0, KH over 100. I have a bead filter and the pond is about 2000 gallons. (Should my KH be even higher than 100?). Have had salt at about .15%

      Today I took her out to a 300 gal QT tank to try and feed her the peas and she has ulcers on her underside and seems swollen. She might be too scared right now, but she hasn't eaten the peas but usually does graze the algae on the bottom a bit. I'm not sure what other treatment to do, I feel like I have not figured out the main issue, and now the secondary issue is the ulcers. On hand I have Microbelift Artemiss, pond salt, melafix, BSDT, and lice and anchor worm treatment. Oxolinic Acid is on its way but that will take a week, I was going to make some medicated food. Any recommendations are appreciated. She has a crooked spine normally, but in that last picture you can see she is bulging out more than usual. She had lost come scales a couple years back and as you can see they are large, but they seem farther apart than normal and I think thats maybe because of her swelling?
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      Last edited by ebrande; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:01 PM.

    2. #2
      RichToyBox's Avatar
      RichToyBox is offline Administrator
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      The kinked back is probably the result of an electrical issue in the pond, lightning, leaking electrical from pump or filter system, or other. Looking a the scales, I am not sure that I would attribute any swelling to a bacterial issue, but treatment of the ulcers should be high on the list. Of the products that you have mentioned on hand or available the only one that might be of any use for the bacterial infection is the Oxolinic Acid. I know of several that have used it and found it to be good. My experience is with Tricide Neo, which you will have to order online. If there has been flashing, piping, breaching or other activities indicating irritation, then the BSDT and the lice and anchor worm treatment, and a product for treatment of flukes like Fluke M or Prazi may be needed. The lice and anchor worm treatment is for parasites that are large enough to be visible without a microscope.


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      Richard

    3. #3
      ebrande is offline Junior Member
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      Hi Richard,

      Thank you for the reply. I know you can do the tricide dip or apply it topically, which would you suggest? I did the BDST when she first started hanging at the bottom, but the others were ok and it did not change her condition.

      Any thoughts on helping the main issue of her being at the bottom? I feel like this is why she is developing ulcers but I've not seen any change. The only other recommendation i've gotten is to give peas and keep the .3% salinity, but she's either too scared to eat in the QT tank or not interested. I'm worried that as we go into cooler weather that if it is a blockage or some sort and we go into hibernation, that it will kill her.

    4. #4
      RichToyBox's Avatar
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      Because of the cost of the Tricide Neo, I really don't care for the dip. I prefer to mix one fourth of the one gallon size packet with a quart of distilled water, saving the balance in an airtight zip bag in the freezer, and spray the fish continually with a spray nozzle for the time specified on the packet, at the frequency of the packet directions, or use as a powder topically.

      Without more information on the activities of the koi, it is hard to diagnose the problem with the fish laying on the bottom. It could be a swim bladder issue, making it difficult to come to the top, or it could be some other issue. If it is the swim bladder, then it could be an infection, and the spray application of the Tricide Neo may resolve the issue, or it could some other cause that would not be helped by the Tricide Neo. You are probably right about the ulcers being caused by the fish laying on the bottom, abrading the slime coat on the grit on the pond bottom.


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    5. #5
      ebrande is offline Junior Member
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      Hi,

      So there does not seem to be improvement in this case, and there is more lifting of scales now. I have done 3 dips for 30-40 mins in oxalinic acid becuase thats what got to me first from what I ordered. It seems to be helping the ulcers a bit. I have the tricide now and the sedative is on its way so i will do that as soon as it comes in and try scraping and scoping for the first time, but am not sure how good i'll be at it.
      I am not sure what to do next, I have some praziquantel coming and I have lice and anchorworm treatment and BSDT now. I have attached pictures trying to show the lifting scales, and some red areas on her sides. I cannot tell if the little bit sticking off of her might be an anchor worm? I was not sure if it was perhaps just tissue? Any help is always appreciated.
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    6. #6
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      The Tricide Neo may help the fish. Scaping and scoping is always a good place to start before using any parasite treatments. With the relatively few and what I would refer to as minor ulcers, I would tend to believe the dropsy symptoms of thickening scales is due to an internal infection. Internal infections could be harming the swim bladder causing the fish to lay on the bottom, or it could be harming the kidneys causing the swelling of the scales, or it could be both situations. I would not hold out a lot of hope, but it is a good educational tool, particularly if you are able to save the fish.


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      Keep your words sweet. You never know when you may have to eat them.
      Richard

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