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    Results 21 to 40 of 41

    Thread: Omosako shiro utsuri tosai selection

    1. #21
      kevins2ooo is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koikawa View Post
      Good question. I am looking mainly to have a nice pattern that is clean and balanced as much as this level of tosai can go.
      You won't know the pattern even if they had underlying sumi, especially on tosai. There are two types of sumi, one comes from underneath, the other grows on the outer skin first. D has barely any sumi on the shoulder but that doesn't mean it won't have any. The breeder saw the sumi pattern but whether it would come up the way you want them is 100% gamble.

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    2. #22
      ChagoiLover is offline Member
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      Yes, you have a point. What I am trying to get at is, if you don't want to gamble on a fish, then you would choose the shiro with sumi up already if you are not interested in growth and vice versa.

    3. #23
      sactownkoi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Koikawa View Post
      Good question. I am looking mainly to have a nice pattern that is clean and balanced as much as this level of tosai can go.
      At this size you can't pick shiro for pattern it will never stay the same. I have an Omosako shiro about 5 years now and at 26" sumi is still developing on her it has not peak yet.

    4. #24
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      I completely understand about the sumi and pattern not being finished. They are of course too young and this breeder is known for his koi to take many years. Also, I know that these are the grade that the breeder want to release as he's keeping the better ones to grow out himself. I am happy to gamble and see how they grow!

      What I meant was the following for more clarity:
      ▪︎future potential for this grade - seeing where the potential sumi underneath is
      ▪︎showing potential of good sumi
      ▪︎ clean white that covers the majority of the body vs being predominantly black
      ▪︎Good body conformation
      ▪︎Good skin

      I adjust my expectations, especially since I am beginning to learn and am trying to train my own eye. Which is why all of your comments to are so helpful. Thank you! (Now if it seems like my current expectations are out of whack, please kindly let me know lol. )
      Last edited by Koikawa; 09-26-2021 at 12:16 PM.

    5. #25
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      I would also suggest not to overthink it, the fish are from a farm that is specialized in Shiro Utsuri, you have done your due diligence what to look for at this stage of the fish. Just pick the one (or even better two) you like most and enjoy to see them grow. I got my two on the 9th of July, probably about the size of the ones you are looking at and by now they must be already about 15" , mind you them and their friends this month alone have polished of 10kg of high growth pellets!
      The Shiro in the first photo (taken the day I got them) with the Matsuba is the paler one in the second photo (taken today)
      Attached Images Attached Images   
      Last edited by Paul Sabucchi; 09-26-2021 at 02:42 PM.

    6. #26
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      What a timely reminder and good advice to not over think it. Thank you for that and for sharing your beauties! That's a great growth spurt, wow! I keep thinking koi are like nature's water dogs, forever hungry and hopeful that you'll feed them anytime you come near. ☺

    7. #27
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      Well, waiting for the dealer to respond to see if all 4 are mine or not. I blame Orlando if it happens...for all good things.

      In the meantime, here's a short clip of them swimming. https://youtu.be/8TzJKhqkfls

    8. #28
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Where are the fish coming from?

      What price are you paying for the four?

      You will not go wrong buying 4 quality Japanese fish.

      Far more interesting to see each fish develop as they grow out.

      You can then turn back to the A B C D. and compere.
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    9. #29
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      The fish are coming from a local dealer so no shipping cost. $200 USD each and all 4 has been confirmed as mine! I'm getting excited about this Omosako grow out! Now to get my QT set up properly so that they have a nice transitional stay before meeting the bunch.
      Last edited by Koikawa; 09-27-2021 at 08:04 PM.

    10. #30
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Congratulations, looking forward to seeing them at your place. I paid 50% more for mine, I think I was ripped off to some extent but it was the only retailer that had any, due to the problems shipping from Japan. Anyway I am really happy with them so it was worth it, I am sure yours will bring you as much satisfaction. Ciao

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    11. #31
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      They are the same grade. Why beat yourself up trying to pick the best one? The breeder already culled them for you.

      Similarly, it is futile trying to pick a female from a tank that is 95% male as most available cheap tosai are.

      Better odds going to Vegas and playing one hand at any game than buying tosai.

    12. #32
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sabucchi View Post
      Congratulations, looking forward to seeing them at your place. I paid 50% more for mine, I think I was ripped off to some extent but it was the only retailer that had any, due to the problems shipping from Japan. Anyway I am really happy with them so it was worth it, I am sure yours will bring you as much satisfaction. Ciao
      Hi, have you managed to sex your Shiro's?

      I am going female with the one very visible one.
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    13. #33
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Not attempted yet, was thinking of leaving them until next year to net them to try to sex them and measure them to see how much they have grown in a year. The water still gets up to 75f during the day so they are still eating like gannets. Hopefully this week the materials for winter covering will be delivered, I am hoping to keep them active throughout the cold season.
      Here are my two Shiro from Omosako. From the same origin I got also a Kujaku, a Goshiki and a Gin Matsuba - going only by my limited sample I think they still have a way to go before these other varieties reach the consistent quality of their Shiros. Ciao
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    14. #34
      kevins2ooo is offline Senior Member
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      Congratulations. Can't go wrong with any of those, can't lose beni.

    15. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sabucchi View Post
      Congratulations, looking forward to seeing them at your place. I paid 50% more for mine, I think I was ripped off to some extent but it was the only retailer that had any, due to the problems shipping from Japan. Anyway I am really happy with them so it was worth it, I am sure yours will bring you as much satisfaction. Ciao
      I am happy that you were able to get the ones you wanted though not at a price that makes you feel like you were somewhat ripped off. Given what you stated about the shipping issues, I hope that the markup was due to that instead of anything else. The photos you posted of them are very nice so very glad that you're happy in the end. I'm looking forward to seeing mine grow once I have them in hand. Hopefully the dealer and I can connect soon to make the arrangements. Don't know what it is about the black and white types but I find them super striking and elegant.


      Quote Originally Posted by abuchi123 View Post
      They are the same grade. Why beat yourself up trying to pick the best one? The breeder already culled them for you.

      Similarly, it is futile trying to pick a female from a tank that is 95% male as most available cheap tosai are.

      Better odds going to Vegas and playing one hand at any game than buying tosai.
      That's one way to look at it. Guess I was trying to learn more since I'm so new to koi that even with cheap tosai, it's nice to understand what can make one "better" than another, even feature to feature. I've been going to see nicer koi in person at some other dealers who are open to that and asking them questions and for their opinions. Want to get more familiar and I feel like there's a lot of knowledge housed within Koiphen members.

    16. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevins2ooo View Post
      Congratulations. Can't go wrong with any of those, can't lose beni.
      Hahaha! Yes, can't lose beni...or hi, which my "goshiki" never even had when I bought it because I had asked for a shiro utsuri! Though in my defense, I knew nothing about koi (had actually gone there to do recon work in prep for purchasing some later), was completely naive, and when you ask 5+ times "are you sure that the grayish areas will turn white" times by the dealer's staff, you kind of turn off the nagging feeling of "something is wrong". Which I will never not listen to again. I had even asked the owner if it was a good bunch of koi that had been selected, and I still can't believe he said "yes". I guess for me, if I were a business owner, I couldn't sell a goshiki to a customer when it's lost one of its primary colors in good conscience without making sure that they knew and were okay with it. But that's just me. This was obviously when I was completely innocent and totally trusted that I was being told the truth. Haven't gone back there and am spending my money elsewhere.

      At least in this case, the white is white and the black is a possibility. Another Koiphen member recommended this current dealer so I hope it pans out. We shall see.

    17. #37
      Koikawa's Avatar
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      So the second pic is a super bad quality photo and I obviously need to learn how to take better ones, but here's a quick update on the 4 grow out. I swapped out B for E so fingers crossed with them all.

      9/25/2021:
      Name:  Omosako Shiro Utsuri A C D.jpg
Views: 368
Size:  59.4 KB

      10/18/2021:
      Name:  Omosako shiro utsuri tosai black panda april 2020 spawning.jpg
Views: 368
Size:  48.9 KB

    18. #38
      inazuma28 is offline Senior Member
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      Here are my 2 cents: My Rank D>C>A I can't judge E based on the photo. Based on the leading ray of the pec fins my educated guess is that A and D are likely female, C is most likely male. All of these fish have the blue-toned desirable sumi. Pattern at this stage is irrelevant as long as there is some pattern. C and D have higher quality skin than A. My favorite body is D, followed by C followed by A. But if you really want to know what body style develops best for this line, look at what the mother looked like as a tosai. These pics are often available on omosako's website.

    19. #39
      Koikawa's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by inazuma28 View Post
      Here are my 2 cents: My Rank D>C>A I can't judge E based on the photo. Based on the leading ray of the pec fins my educated guess is that A and D are likely female, C is most likely male. All of these fish have the blue-toned desirable sumi. Pattern at this stage is irrelevant as long as there is some pattern. C and D have higher quality skin than A. My favorite body is D, followed by C followed by A. But if you really want to know what body style develops best for this line, look at what the mother looked like as a tosai. These pics are often available on omosako's website.
      Really appreciate your 2 cents and glad to hear that they all have the desirable sumi. I'm super excited to learn from them as they grow as well as from the tips you all are providing along the way. Here's the photo of the oyakoi Black Panda from Omosako's website, just wish it was higher resolution/bigger. She is definitely well-named!
      Name:  blackpanda.JPG
Views: 311
Size:  30.3 KB

      And here's a better photo of E:
      Name:  e-chan.jpg
Views: 310
Size:  41.7 KB

    20. #40
      Chrisv. is offline Junior Member
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      Any update on these? How did they turn out?!

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