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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 21 to 34 of 34

    Thread: Advise: New Concrete Koi Pond with Wetland Filter

    1. #21
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by shmoolik View Post
      Thank you for your very helpful comments and suggestions!
      I will read about the Zakki Sieve system and think about your comments regarding the bottom drain.
      From your experience, is bottom drain a must or will it also be enough to use the skimmer line to feed the filter (whichever selected)?
      In my original message I wrote some other possible usages for these bottom drain - what do you tink?

      From what I read, any kind of filter requires some kind of maintenance - some more and some less.
      I don't know how much time you had to go over my setup, but I put two important elements that will help maintain and clean the filter (approximately once a year):
      1. Centipede Module.
      2. Aqua Blox.
      The wetland filter area is quite large (about 3/4 the size of the pond), so there's plenty of surface area to work on the "dirty water".
      As I also noted, I'm also planning to insert a UV light sterilizer before the wetland filter (on the line coming from the skimmer).

      Best Regards,
      Shmoolik
      As I mentioned previously I avoided using the snorkel and centipede (might have used aquablox) because they are hard to get over here but even if they were available I have been put off by all the negative experience of those who have had them long term, they look great on the TV or youtube programs when freshly installed but they never show you how they are 5 years down the line, on the other hand there are plenty of people who have regretted using this system, it would be interesting to see if there is anyone that is satisfied with this method after it has been in place for a few years.
      Do not take my words as gospel, I am new at this game too, but I see a few issues with the "Pond Guy" method, mainly due to having a not very capillary way to distribute the water under the rocks and gravel, once it starts to clog with detritus and roots I can see water taking the path of least resistance, and not being very efficient to clean as once it clogs up with detritus and roots all you can do is pump out whatever sludge makes it to the bottom of the snorkel.
      As many have said "standard" filtration systems are (ideally) designed to remove waste mechanically and be easy to clean.
      A wetland filter is none of the above but can eliminate nitrates and phosphates that other traditional filters will not do.
      I hope that putting a drain towards which the bottom of the wetland slopes and lifting the pipes and (just 12" of) gravel off the bottom by having them sit on perforated pallets (see photo) will mean that it can be flushed more effectively, I can use a pressure washer or if required remove a plant roots and all without having to deal with tons of big rocks tangled underneath.
      Again we will have to see how my build will stand the test of time, it is a bit of an experiment of this kind of implementation - we will learn either way if it works or it does not.
      So far I can say the biological filtration has been great, water clarity is good viewing from above all the way to the bottom but underwater observation or video on the other hand shows very fine particulate suspended in the water.
      There are other advocates for wetland filtration
      https://youtu.be/VpqDwqXSSYs
      https://youtu.be/gaLOR0Um894
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    2. #22
      shmoolik is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sabucchi View Post
      Hi, you can have an overview of my build here
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_XtqNO...ature=youtu.be
      I chose to have two wetland areas because I like plants and creating a natural environment but also because it allows to shut one off to work on it or even overhaul it completely if required while the other keeps things going.
      Generally if you want to keep fish it is suggested to have wetlands equivalent to 25-30% of the fish pond surface, in my case the pond is 40 square meters (430 square feet) while each wetland is 10 (107 square feet) so 25% each, in your case in proportion you have even more so you are ok there.
      The single aerated bottom drain gravity feeds through a 4" PN10 pvc pipe (with a shut off and a drain valve) to a 750 liter or 200 US gal tub while the surface skimmer gravity feeds through a 2" pvc pipe to a 1000 liter tub (housing a few goldfish). These tubs serve as sedimentation tanks, I have put valves on the bottom of both. I would have preferred to use a sieve filter on the bottom drain but I need the pond as emergency water reservoir for my other animals and with a sieve filter dropping the pond level significantly is not an option. I also would rather have had a bigger skimmer and pipe but during the initial months of covid when Italy was hit very hard supplies were hard to come by.
      In the tub from the bottom drain I have six Sunsun CTP 3000 l/h pumps, each one by means of a 1" hose is connected to an 8 meter length of 2" pvc pipe in which I have cut slots every two inches or so. In the tub from the surface skimmer I have two of the same pumps each leading to a 37w UV clarifier and then to a similar section of slotted pipe.
      I have chosen to use multiple smaller pumps because I have been using them for years and am happy with them (they can be used both in and out of the water), it gives redundancy (if one stops working I only lose 1/8 of the flow), ensures each length of slotted pipe gets the same amount of flow and it allows me to better control how much water goes where, as a bonus they are very energy efficient as long as they don't have to push water much higher - I only have 2-3" to deal with.
      The water from the slots in the pipes flows up through the gravel and then spills back in the fish pond
      Very nice Paul!

      I hope you feel better after all the surgeries… loved the tent to cabin on the run LOL

      I understand much better now the entire system- thanks for that. Indeed you have quite a redundancy which is very good for the long run. Seems you put a lot of thought (and soul) into it and I’m sure it will give you a lot of happiness and satisfaction

      One thing I do not understand though in the build. For Koi you need a lot of oxygen, and I see you have aeration fed into the bottom drain, right?
      However, in the original sketch I see that the sloped bottom drain pumps sediments out of the pond. Could you please elaborate on how the aeration works (where the water comes from, how many pumps and pipes, sizes etc.) and on how the sediment handling works?

      Best Regards,
      Shmoolik


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    3. #23
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      Besides the 4" outlet pipe the bottom drain is hooked up to a pipe coming from an air pump suitable for your size of pond. In my case it is a Blagdon pond oxygenator 2400. The "hat" on top of the drain has hundreds of little holes so it works like an air stone creating a column of bubbles that rise to the surface, this not only oxygenates the water (very important particularly when the water is relatively warm as desolved oxygen would tend to drop) but it also creates a kind of "convective" water current. As the bubbles rise they drag water up, this water then will be pushed along the surface and descend again along the sides and then the bottom of the pond back towards the bottom drain helping to convey the detritus to it. Practically it helps the bottom drain to suck out more muck

    4. #24
      jiawei468 is offline Senior Member
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      Some advice here:
      Use the first half of the "wetland filter" space --- put in an Rotational Drum Filter. (RDF).
      After the RDF, you can still have your wetland filter and then back into the pond.

      This will greatly reduced amount of maintenance and still fits you current build.

      If no rdf is put in? Maybe the wetland filter will become very hard to clean after a few years.
      Many thanks!!!!

    5. #25
      jiawei468 is offline Senior Member
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      Remember to put a mechanical filtration before wetland filter! By doing so you get the benifit of both world.

      You can put wooden stack over it and it would still be elegant and good looking --- but performance of the filtration would be super superior.

      Trust me and you will never regret. Thank.

    6. #26
      shmoolik is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by jiawei468 View Post
      Some advice here:
      Use the first half of the "wetland filter" space --- put in an Rotational Drum Filter. (RDF).
      After the RDF, you can still have your wetland filter and then back into the pond.

      This will greatly reduced amount of maintenance and still fits you current build.

      If no rdf is put in? Maybe the wetland filter will become very hard to clean after a few years.
      Many thanks!!!!
      Good idea!
      Actually I am thinking of using the pump area for pre-filtering the solids and only then using the wetland filtration. What are advantages of drum filter over other types (like siev for example)?


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    7. #27
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      A traditional sieve filter requires you to flush out the residues (so it requires an outlet to drain the waste chamber), traditional gravity fed sieves can't be placed with the top of the sieve above pond surface level, only a zakki sieve can.
      A rotary drum filter will automatically clean itself at regular intervals but requires a connection to mains water and a drain outlet, it can be placed above pond level if pump fed.
      So weather you have just a settling chamber, a sieve or an RDF do consider how you are going to get waste/waste water out of the (pre)filter pit and also the pond itself should it be necessary
      On a different note, what plant/tree are you thinking to place in the pond planter. You need something that does not drop a ton of leaves, particularly if they are small leaves. Maybe consider a magnolia, what kind of climate do you have and how much sunlight does the pond and wetland get?

    8. #28
      shmoolik is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sabucchi View Post
      A traditional sieve filter requires you to flush out the residues (so it requires an outlet to drain the waste chamber), traditional gravity fed sieves can't be placed with the top of the sieve above pond surface level, only a zakki sieve can.
      A rotary drum filter will automatically clean itself at regular intervals but requires a connection to mains water and a drain outlet, it can be placed above pond level if pump fed.
      So weather you have just a settling chamber, a sieve or an RDF do consider how you are going to get waste/waste water out of the (pre)filter pit and also the pond itself should it be necessary
      On a different note, what plant/tree are you thinking to place in the pond planter. You need something that does not drop a ton of leaves, particularly if they are small leaves. Maybe consider a magnolia, what kind of climate do you have and how much sunlight does the pond and wetland get?
      I'm also considering a pressure filter for the pre-filter prior to the wetland (I read that OASE FILTOCLEAR 30000 should be OK for my pond size) - would love to hear your opinion on that.
      Regarding the pond planter, I already have a Plumeria Rubra in there that I bought in Thailand and planted its seeds about 7 years ago! (see attached photo)
      It has beautiful small white flowers (with great smell) that the Helix skimmer should handle with ease.
      The amount of leaves is neglectable.
      Half of the pond is in shed but the other half gets direct sunlight about 4 hours a day.
      As the tree grows the amount of shade should grow as well.
      The wetland filter should get ~6 hours of sunlight a day.
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    9. #29
      Kathy is offline Senior Member
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      That's a classic plumeria for lei making! I live in Hawaii where plumeria are abundant. The scent is wonderful.

      We have 2 rdfs and really like them. If you're looking for low maintenance, and you have room for one, go with a rdf! They both feed anoxic filters with either lilies or floating water plants. Maintenance on the anoxic filters minimal, maybe every 3 to 6 months we purge the filters as both have drains on the bottom. We looked into bogs, but after having large aquariums with under gravel filters along with canister pressure filters, and seeing how much detritus accumulates in the gravel, we decided on anoxic filters. We're really pleased with this system. Best of luck to you, and looking forward to seeing posts of your build!

    10. #30
      Paul Sabucchi is offline Senior Member
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      That sounds like a great plant, would love to have one but will have to see how the winter cover works out as winter here probably way to cold for it?
      It seems to me the common advice here is to put drains on the bottom of the wetland basin and the (pre)filter area - better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them. I have no prefilters before my bogs but hopefully will have the means to flush or if necessary overhaul them. Anoxic baskets as suggested are another option and not dissimilar to wetlands, just uses cat litter and laterite as a substrate for microbes and plants. As it is organized in baskets it does allow for managing it a small bit at a time. I have used them for my goldfish tubs and worked ok, downside at least here is finding the right cat litter that will not rapidly melt to mush and the laterite for the core (I had to use JBL aquabasis), also the pond baskets tended to be a bit small and flimsy for a large scale application (I would not like to walk on t
      them) so my advice is to see what materials have been used successfully by pond keepers in your area. I am still not entirely convinced by the explanation of how and why Novak's system works, but it is tried and tested.

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    11. #31
      shmoolik is offline Junior Member
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      Kathy I will make sure to send you some flowers for you lei making

      Everyone, I'm considering using a pressure filter for the pre-filter prior to the wetland (I read good things about OASE FILTOCLEAR 30000 which should be OK for my pond size).
      Would love to hear your opinions on that comparing to the other alternatives discussed on this thread.

    12. #32
      jiawei468 is offline Senior Member
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      RDF = EASY MAINTNANCE. How easy? At most 10% of maintenance than other filter.
      Above is biggest difference of RDF and other filter.
      Only consider this.


      Conclusion: If you can afford one RDF, buy it. No regret.

    13. #33
      One Poet's Garden's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sabucchi View Post
      That sounds like a great plant, would love to have one but will have to see how the winter cover works out as winter here probably way to cold for it?
      Paul, if that plumeria even catches of whiff of 50 degrees (10C), it'll sigh and faint, like a proper olde English lady clutching her pearls. I grew them in San Diego, but they're impossible here, unless one takes extraordinary measures.

      Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sabucchi View Post
      I am still not entirely convinced by the explanation of how and why Novak's system works, but it is tried and tested.
      I'm no chemist, but my experimental version seems to be working. I'd never made a pond that didn't go green before, but this one's still clear. No string algae either. I'm a little surprised.

      Best,

      Bill

    14. #34
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by shmoolik View Post
      Kathy I will make sure to send you some flowers for you lei making

      Everyone, I'm considering using a pressure filter for the pre-filter prior to the wetland (I read good things about OASE FILTOCLEAR 30000 which should be OK for my pond size).
      Would love to hear your opinions on that comparing to the other alternatives discussed on this thread.
      Many use pressure type filters but they still need some type of filtration to remove larger debris before them. The manufacturers are
      also notorious for over estimating how large a pond they'll filter. A good guide is to take their recommended pond size for the filter and
      divide it by 3. I have a Challenger 60 rated for a 10k gallon pond that is on mine that is 3500 gallons and it works pretty well. I have
      an Ultra III sieve before it.
      --Steve



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