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  • Results 1 to 7 of 7

    Thread: Pond dimensions affect koi mood?

    1. #1
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      Pond dimensions affect koi mood?

      Has anyone heard of any studies regarding how pond surface area affects koi mentally? Are koi happier and therefore healthier if they are in a 25’x25’ pond instead of an 8’x8’, or are they not intelligent enough to have an opinion?

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    2. #2
      SimonW's Avatar
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      I am sure that fish don't have a so big brain that they can suffer long-term psychological problems.

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      I am sure that fish don't have a so big brain that they can suffer long-term psychological problems.
      There is a lot we don't know about how brains work both in mammals and other animals. Fish have had millions of years to evolve and the scientific community has barely scratched the surface of what we truly "know" about how fish brains work.

      An clumsy analogy would be computer technology. Years ago computing power was generated by enormous machines, now tech has evolved to put that power into a cell phones. Could brains work in the same fashion? Science has barely studied that.

      This is a great book that breaches the subject.

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    4. #4
      One Poet's Garden's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiFan84 View Post
      Has anyone heard of any studies regarding how pond surface area affects koi mentally? Are koi happier and therefore healthier if they are in a 25’x25’ pond instead of an 8’x8’
      This is the subject of one of the most famous debates in Chinese philosophy. Zhuang Zhou is walking along with his friend, when they have "The Debate on the Joy of Fish":

      ******************

      Zhuang Zhou and Hui Shih were enjoying themselves on the bridge over the Hao River.

      Zhuang Zhou said, "The fish are darting about free and easy! This is how fish are happy."

      Hui Shih replied, "You are not a fish. How do you know that the fish are happy?"

      Zhuang Zhou said, "You are not I. How do you know that I do not know that the fish are happy?"

      Hui Shih said, "I am not you, to be sure, so of course I don't know about you. But you obviously are not a fish; so the case is complete that you do not know that the fish are happy."

      Zhuang Zhou said, "Let's go back to the beginning of this. You said, How do you know that the fish are happy; but in asking me this, you already knew that I know it. I know it right here above the Hao."

      — Zhuangzi, chapter 17

      *******************

      A hundred generations of students have found the whole thing quite puzzling! There's more about it here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zhuangzi/

      Best,

      Bill

      (ps. Stanford gives a slightly different version of the story:

      "Zhuangzi and Hui Shi wandered over the Hao River bridge. Zhuangzi said, “those mini-fish coming from there and cruising around, relaxed and unhurried, are fish at leisure.” Hui Shi said “You are not a fish; from whence do you know the leisure of fish?” Zhuangzi retorted, “You are not me, from what perspective do you know my not knowing fish at leisure?” Hui Shi responds, “I’m not you, of course I don’t know about you; You are not a fish and that’s enough to count as you’re not knowing fish’s leisure.” Zhuangzi concludes, “Let’s return to where we started. When you said ‘from what perspective do you know fish at leisure’, you clearly knew my knowing it as you asked me. I knew it here above the Hao.”

    5. #5
      batman is offline Senior Member
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      I'm certain a couple billion dollars of government research grants funded by taxpayers would result in multiple fish psychology guesses published by today's leading self-proclaimed fish psychologists.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    6. #6
      two_wheeled is offline Senior Member
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      I've spoken with my fish about this before. They were all in agreement that our pond was satisfactory, though they wouldn't mind it being a bit longer, with more shade, and possibly deeper with more plants they could dig in. We discussed this regularly. Not to worry, our conversations were always pleasant and the fish never shouted. In the end, they said it would be most delightful if I gave them more shade and fed them more regularly. Now we all get along swimmingly!
      -Steve in Phx.
      Novice Extraordinaire

    7. #7
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      I know koi are super dumb. They ain’t no dolphins haha, but it just seems that if a big one had to swim 5 feet then turn around and do 5 feet again it would be less stimulating than 20 and 20. One piece of evidence might be that if you throw floating fruit in they seem to play with it. Although the fact that it’s hard to eat may just **** them off lol. One other example is that they calmly come to the owner, but shy away from different looking strangers. This could all be instincts though I guess. I think it is a legitimate question though.

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