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  • Results 1 to 11 of 11

    Thread: So many question.

    1. #1
      CHJ is offline Junior Member
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      So many question.

      When I was 4-5 years old I went fishing and liked what I caught. So I dug a hole in the back yard to keep them. I think my mom was amused as she knew what would happen and so let me do it. Yeah all the water drained away when I wasn't looking so no place to put fish. Next I put a cut open garbage bag in my hole and it held water. My parents were less amused by my working "mosquito farm" so I had to pull the plastic out and let it drain.
      In my teen years while landscaping I got a book on koi ponds. Parents were not up for me building one in their yard.
      Years of renting.
      Now 10 years into owning my own house a large hole is forming in my backyard. It will be ~20' around and 6' deep. 2 4" aerated bottom drains. Liner.
      I have been going through videos and reading everything.
      There are still some things I have no idea about.
      1. I think I want to go Rotating drum > 330o gal IBC tote with tumbling K1 media > UV > back to pond. Now it definitely looks like skimmer should be first. I asked the person who did a lot of the pond videos and got "Gimme 1000$!" as a reply.
      So about the drains. can those go to a tee/Wye junction and off to the skimmer or should each have their own skimmer? Seems like 1 skimmer per drain would add up with massive ponds.
      The fish leavings shouldn't go through the pump. So now I have to look at building a mini basement in my garage for gravity feeding filtration? Can I just hook the bottom drains to a section of a 4" Wye pipe that has a 2" arm going to the pump in the skimmer and run it like an air brush? It seems like that would be easier. Then I wouldn't need a skimmer with an intake on the bottom. I wonder if I can get a wye pipe like this or if I'd have to weld one? Would I want the 2" pipe to actually feed into an elbow to make an airbrush pipe?
      2. The concrete. I was going to go with a ring at the top but am not sure if I will have to do some walls to stop tree roots. I have a large maple which while 30' away has 3+" roots on the far side of the pond. I live in the frozen north hence the 6' deep. Should I look at basalt fiber reinforcing the ring? It would be nice if it could shrug of season changes as well as asteroid strikes. I will probably go metal rebar for reinforcement as basalt is $$$ even out of Alibaba. Not sure about glass and other fibers that will never rust as an alternative. Will a premix truck dump in basalt fibers I provide?
      3. OK I feel dumb. Where does the waste from an RDF go? Is there an easy way to have it just go feed plants around my yard? Does it need a pump after it dumps out of the filter? How can I not find this info on the web?
      4. As what I'm looking at for filtration seems to be 1 protein skimmer short of RAS is there any reason to get one? I'm not going to go anywhere near RAS density but I do have a soft spot in my heart for overkill.
      5. Winter is coming. How do I not burst all my PVC? Install it all with a slope so I can attach fittings and use a compressor to fill all the lines with air once it gets towards 32F?

      And a koi question. I like the aesthetic of the koi with the over sized scales (Aragoke?). My current favorite YouTube koi channel had one ep where he talked about them but the ones he was looking at in Japan didn't have full scale coverage. The one I own doesn't either. Then I see a guy who caught a 9lb butterfly with what looks like full coverage and oversized scales was this fish valuable? I would have loved it.

      OK another koi question: years ago I found a site selling "peanuts" AKA ~2" unsorted baby koi. This initially seemed like a really great way to stock a new pond. They are unculled the site says. The it occurred to me, this might be the worst possible way to stock a pond. Isn't the cull rate for koi over 95%? So I would be stocking a pond with 95+% culls? Seems like it would be better to spend years picking and choosing the ~30 koi I figure will be in the pond.

      OK another pond/koi question. As koi can live over 200 years according to Hanako, what do you do planning wise for them when you die? Marry a much younger spouse who loves koi when you are on your death bed?

      I doubtless will have more questions. Thanks for any info you can provide.

    2. #2
      One Poet's Garden's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by CHJ View Post
      Seems like it would be better to spend years picking and choosing the ~30 koi I figure will be in the pond.
      You'd think so, wouldn't you? But I'm not sure it works like that. Maybe turn the idea around: should we really be spending hundreds - or even thousands - on koi before we have a few years of experience raising them? There are *so* many things that can go wrong. I kind of like the idea of starting with smaller fish, and gaining experience.

      Oh, and the dude who told you koi live 200 years? I'm pretty sure that's the stuff of myth and legend. Back here in the reality based community, we're talking a couple, maybe a few, decades. Unless, of course, you find the legendary spring of immortality, in which case all bets are off!

      Good luck, and post lots of pictures!

      Best,

      Bill

    3. #3
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Wlantry View Post
      You'd think so, wouldn't you? But I'm not sure it works like that. Maybe turn the idea around: should we really be spending hundreds - or even thousands - on koi before we have a few years of experience raising them? There are *so* many things that can go wrong. I kind of like the idea of starting with smaller fish, and gaining experience.

      Oh, and the dude who told you koi live 200 years? I'm pretty sure that's the stuff of myth and legend. Back here in the reality based community, we're talking a couple, maybe a few, decades. Unless, of course, you find the legendary spring of immortality, in which case all bets are off!

      Good luck, and post lots of pictures!

      Best,

      Bill
      I understand there are some that are 60 or so in japan. My old pond still has a koi that I put in 87.

    4. #4
      montwila's Avatar
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      You do have a lot of questions. They all seem worth a "complete responses" but that might take a couple pages of typing to do properly. I hate to type!

      In the twin cities there is a large koi club. They might have members willing to talk to you for much less than $1000. Usually the membership to a koi club is about $20-25 dollars for the year. The members of this koi club probably have made hundreds of mistakes building their ponds in the MN climate/weather. You can learn a lot by talking with them and hopefully not making those same mistakes.

      The short answer on the RDF waste: each installation is different and probably one answer cannot cover everyone's situation. The water is gravity out of the RDF unit but it contains all the solids removed from the unit. If this were in your basement it might have to be pumped out or maybe your sewer line could be tapped into. The solids in this waste water should probably be caught first as it is not the same as flushing a toilet. This would involve a tank with at least a strainer to catch these solids. Then there is a potential for off gassing of these organics into the basement space. Also there might be humidity considerations. So maybe it is better to keep all the filtration outside of the house and not even consider the basement as an option for the filtration equipment. These thoughts could easily be answered by a local fellow ponder.

      My suggestion is look to the local club and see if there is a pond or two that you can visit before you go any further. If you are just asking these questions in the middle of July, I do not believe you are ready to go much further this year. Take your time and plan to actually build next year but take the Winter to plan. After all it sounds like you need to find a younger wife first.

      I can be PM'd if you are having difficulty getting local answers to your questions.

    5. #5
      msegger is offline Senior Member
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      Agree multiple questions - few suggestions to get more reasons would be show a schematic, very basic layout with elevation then bird eye view. Also include pictures of the site. Start there with one or two questions.

    6. #6
      CHJ is offline Junior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by montwila View Post
      You do have a lot of questions. They all seem worth a "complete responses" but that might take a couple pages of typing to do properly. I hate to type!

      In the twin cities there is a large koi club. They might have members willing to talk to you for much less than $1000. Usually the membership to a koi club is about $20-25 dollars for the year. The members of this koi club probably have made hundreds of mistakes building their ponds in the MN climate/weather. You can learn a lot by talking with them and hopefully not making those same mistakes.

      The short answer on the RDF waste: each installation is different and probably one answer cannot cover everyone's situation. The water is gravity out of the RDF unit but it contains all the solids removed from the unit. If this were in your basement it might have to be pumped out or maybe your sewer line could be tapped into. The solids in this waste water should probably be caught first as it is not the same as flushing a toilet. This would involve a tank with at least a strainer to catch these solids. Then there is a potential for off gassing of these organics into the basement space. Also there might be humidity considerations. So maybe it is better to keep all the filtration outside of the house and not even consider the basement as an option for the filtration equipment. These thoughts could easily be answered by a local fellow ponder.

      My suggestion is look to the local club and see if there is a pond or two that you can visit before you go any further. If you are just asking these questions in the middle of July, I do not believe you are ready to go much further this year. Take your time and plan to actually build next year but take the Winter to plan. After all it sounds like you need to find a younger wife first.

      I can be PM'd if you are having difficulty getting local answers to your questions.
      Thanks for the heads up on the Twin Cities Koi group. I shall look into them. Never considered there would be a large koi group in the frigid north. I know koi happens in the cold as I have seen recommendations for "at least 4' deep" so I'm going 6. Is The Upper Midwest Koi Club it?

      Maybe mini-basement in my garage is the wrong term for something 4-5 feet deep. Pit or hole seems a little less elegant of a term, though probably more accurate. Maybe wide trench?



      Quote Originally Posted by Wlantry View Post
      You'd think so, wouldn't you? But I'm not sure it works like that. Maybe turn the idea around: should we really be spending hundreds - or even thousands - on koi before we have a few years of experience raising them? There are *so* many things that can go wrong. I kind of like the idea of starting with smaller fish, and gaining experience.

      Oh, and the dude who told you koi live 200 years? I'm pretty sure that's the stuff of myth and legend. Back here in the reality based community, we're talking a couple, maybe a few, decades. Unless, of course, you find the legendary spring of immortality, in which case all bets are off!

      Good luck, and post lots of pictures!

      Best,

      Bill
      Ah I took the over 200 from https://www.timesnownews.com/the-buz...1%20in%20Japan.

      40 years also allows for willing your fish to others.

      I have decades of experience with smaller fish, just not fish in ponds. My largest "smaller fish" is a little over 2 feet and is in the process of getting a temp 220 gal to hold him over until I can build his final tank. Would have had the tank done last yeah but this COVID thing came up.

      Usually posting pics involves external hosting. I used that once but it was so long ago I no longer remember where it was. imagur maybe? I should look into that again.


      Thanks everyone for all the quick answers. I'm off to track down the twin cities koi keepers.
      Last edited by CHJ; 07-19-2021 at 12:47 PM.

    7. #7
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by CHJ View Post
      Thanks for the heads up on the Twin Cities Koi group. I shall look into them. Never considered there would be a large koi group in the frigid north. I know koi happens in the cold as I have seen recommendations for "at least 4' deep" so I'm going 6. Is The Upper Midwest Koi Club it?

      Maybe mini-basement in my garage is the wrong term for something 4-5 feet deep. Pit or hole seems a little less elegant of a term, though probably more accurate. Maybe wide trench?




      Ah I took the over 200 from https://www.timesnownews.com/the-buz...1%20in%20Japan.

      40 years also allows for willing your fish to others.

      I have decades of experience with smaller fish, just not fish in ponds. My largest "smaller fish" is a little over 2 feet and is in the process of getting a temp 220 gal to hold him over until I can build his final tank. Would have had the tank done last yeah but this COVID thing came up.

      Usually posting pics involves external hosting. I used that once but it was so long ago I no longer remember where it was. imagur maybe? I should look into that again.


      Thanks everyone for all the quick answers. I'm off to track down the twin cities koi keepers.
      No need. Matter of fact we prefer they're hosted here so threads don't end up with broken links when
      people delete the pictures or the hosting site decides to charge monthly fees.

      It's easy:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...tures-Tutorial

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...s-on-the-forum
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    8. #8
      CHJ is offline Junior Member
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      Testing

      I will have to talk to the guy a few blocks down and see if he wants to bring over his back hoe, he has offered to in the past.
      Attached Images Attached Images  

    9. #9
      msegger is offline Senior Member
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      has any erosion occurred on the slope at the sidewalk? excavating and erosion could potentially lead to foundation issues to the pond and/or house.

    10. #10
      CHJ is offline Junior Member
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      Bobcat occurred.
      Hole happened because I said the walling company could dig the back fill out of the middle of my back yard. Hole is the start of a bigger hole that will be a koi pond.
      No sidewalk in pics. Only building is side of garage with small bed in pic. I need to dig up and give away those gojis, they are a menace. I wonder if I should take a pic inside the garage to show where all the filtration will go? No hole is dug in garage for filtration.
      I need to reseed to make it look lawn like. Well OK, I did reseed and then did not water regularly so only weeds grew.
      So I need to weed, reseed and then remember to water.
      I earned my masters in shovel while paying my way through college, so I'm not sure how much of the back yard will become stone work once the pond is in. Might look nice in flag stone.
      If I had a drone I could get a better top down photo for drawing the drain and plumbing layout.

    11. #11
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      You've got a lot of questions, the good news is there is a lot of good answers on the site. I see hours of reading in your future, or at least that is what I did when I first found this site.

      A few things to think about:

      I would suggest designing a way to cover your pond. My first winter I had water without fish so I tested with just air and a deicer. Most of the pond froze over with at least 3" of ice. The next year I created a double layer cover, with the same heater and air it kept the pond ice free.

      Vertical pipes freeze from the top down, so as long as there is a way for the water to get out of your pipe and into your pond, it will not break the pipe. Keep any long horizontal runs of pipe under the frost line or drain them in the winter. If you have ball valves, you will need to make sure you don't have water in the valve when you close them for the winter. The water caught in the valve when closed will expand and damage the valve.

      You will need to plan out what to do with waste water. I'm currently working with a new RDF and I'm collecting it in a trashcan and letting it drain out of a hose fitting in the bottom. I then move the hose around my yard. The pond is 2' above and 4' below ground level, so I don't need to pump it out of a pit.

      I would keep the plumbing of your skimmer and bottom drains separate from each other until you get to your filter pit. It is hard to balance the flow between the two when they are connected. You want to maintain a certain amount of flow through each bottom drain or it can clog.

      If you are going to use gravity to move the water out of your skimmer, you are going to need at least a 3" pipe coming out of the skimmer, mine is only 2" and the flow is not enough when plumbed to the same RDF as the bottom drain, so I move it to a separate circuit.

      Have fun doing your research.

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