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    Results 21 to 40 of 42

    Thread: Pond Rebuild Advice and Structural Questions

    1. #21
      msegger is offline Senior Member
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      1) how do I support the stone and soil above the wall? I was thinking having a second stepped back wall with the same blocks - or maybe what I have is enough.
      - assuming this work you are referring to is what to do on top of the blocks shown in the pictures. if so, how much further do you need to go to where the stream/waterfall will be? if you want to finish out would cinder block, you can hammer drill and epoxy in horizontal bar.

      2) ideas on best way to fill the gap between retaining wall and existing pond clay walls
      - going off the pictures behind the blocks? I would have placed some underlayment behind the blocks to keep fines from coming through then use some screenings but really should not be an issue since you will never see this and will be under the liner.

    2. #22
      Mutchinator is offline Member
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      Pond Rebuild Advice and Structural Questions

      Thanks again. Update pics attached. Added a second course of 1,800 pond blocks set back 30” from face of initial one so we have two solid steps for placing large waterfall rock. Geo grid is around ties block into grade and 2b placed behind as well.

      I have area of concern and it’s the soil near house on left side under the pine tree wall - concern is it’s ready for failure. We are getting pretty far back toward the pine tree wall and and it will be sitting literally at the water edge.

      I would like to put another large block there to shore it up and then have liner OVER the block. Excavator wants to put the liner over the soil and use Boulder to support the soil.

      I told him I do not want structural stone on top of line - I want all structural to be behind liner.

      Makes sense I think but open to opinion.




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      Last edited by Mutchinator; 06-25-2021 at 08:03 PM.

    3. #23
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      Hopefully you’ve had input from a structural engineer. I’d hate to see you foundation compromised.

    4. #24
      Mutchinator is offline Member
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      Yes I spoke with engineer and no problems with house - foundation is no concern; still 7 foot to footer. What I am really working through is the wall which is posted above - from perspective of possible settling once liner is installed.


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    5. #25
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      Update - I am having the underwater retaining wall rebuilt to ensure not settling and level off. Also will be extending the wall to secure the left (house side) bank under the pine tree. We are going to take the Boulder wall apart under the pine tree - it is not structural as the pine tree root mat is securing the soil. Will then build up a block wall, cover with soil or liner - depending on where it lies, and then moving the pine tree wall back a bit. Took some time to assess all options.

      I may also replace the retaining block with 2x2x6 smooth faces concrete block. These are 3k pounds each but would not have the stone-style face on them and provide a smooth surface for liner. They also sit tightly together so no gaps.

      Thankful for my civil engineer friends…


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    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mutchinator View Post
      We are going to take the Boulder wall apart under the pine tree - it is not structural as the pine tree root mat is securing the soil. Will then build up a block wall, cover with soil or liner - depending on where it lies, and then moving the pine tree wall back a bit.
      Please proceed with caution: some established pines don't look kindly on changes to their soil level.

      Best,

      Bill

    7. #27
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      Thanks - worse case is it comes down. But expectation is to just go back a foot or so around it. I have a horticulturalist who has been helping with some other landscape things and you bring up a great point - I will seek her advice on that aspect.

      Anyone see issues with tamping the horizontal shelves and then making walls a bit steeper? I can use block toward the bottom to solidify the base if needed. But I know there is risk of crumbling the edges - if I pack them down in hoping that will give me some flexibility in changing slope.

      I know I can still pour collar probably 12” wide and leave it at back edge of existing coping shelf as well.


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    8. #28
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      I am getting ready this week to have the back block wall rebuilt as it was not set well and appears to have settled a bit. I will give me a solid surface for top layer of stone and waterfall bench/steps.

      Also I will be pouring my collar and a thinking a second concrete shelf mid-way down the wall. Once collar has cured, I will shape the wall to be a slight slope - not vertical but maybe 10-15 degrees or so. I would then create a second shelf based on available width around 2.5-3’ from top of collar; and maybe 4” thick wine it will be below frost and not have the load of the top collar. Intent is to stabilize with this terrace. I would then have another slight slope to the pond bottom.

      Alternatively I could create a concrete block wall vertical from pond floor to the mid-point of the wall. This would be mortared and rebar vertically into pond bottom.

      Questions
      1) I have 24” typically do the coping shelf - so I was going to carve out an 8” deep by 16” wide collar; using the inner shelf wall as one side of the dorm. Rebar, etc as typically installed. Note - I would install wood forms if stability of clay becomes an issue. Does this seem to be an appropriate size?

      2) Any reason to drive rebar vertically into then pond wall for collar or would that create other issues?

      3) Is the second concrete shelf necessary? And/or would using block be better approach to stabilizing the bottom portion of the wall.

      4) What is best way to handle skimmer and collar? Place skimmer face at back edge of collar and continue the collar so it is continuous until it hits the retaining block wall? Lower collar thickness at skimmer mouth and have top of skimmer level with collar top?

      Took a few days off but ready to get back at it tomorrow.

      Thanks much - J


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    9. #29
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      Updated pics. New experienced excavator - two days of work and we removed all unstable soil above pond and totally regraded the top. Gives a lot of extra options for the biofall, stream and large waterfall. Also going to add a second lilly pond fed from bottom thru a second submersible pump which will then overflow into stream.

      Evolving quite a bit -

      Cleaned out main pine and vertical cut walls. Added 4” 2b and wire mesh/rebar being laid tomorrow and 5” concrete on Friday. This will give a solid base upon which I can install block walls (rebar, filled etc) - and also easy to clean any clay droppings as I continue to work around the pond prior to liner. Also will stabilize the clay soil.

      Main pond is 15x15x5 or so - and second pond will be 10x12x2 - give or take.








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    10. #30
      Mutchinator is offline Member
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      Progress - rebar down and concrete poured. Block wall and collar next.



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    11. #31
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      Ready to build cinder block walls - going to step them up - so no wall will be more than 3’ high - stepped back, backfill with 2b and concrete poured or use a capstone. Then build next wall.

      I feel I have good handle on it - rebar is ready and block order tomorrow .


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    12. #32
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      Did miss your bottom drain plans?

    13. #33
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      Using an alternative filtration strategy -


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    14. #34
      Mutchinator is offline Member
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      Updated pics - block walls going up. Will now backfill with 2B and cap with 4” block. Then will step back 2’ each direction toward pool and toward houses. And 4-5’ toward the right in this pic - away from large retaining block wall. Then another short wall. The shelves created will be into virgin soil. After this next shelf I will be at pond water level and coping shelf. So step back 18” and then up.

      Was planning on using horizontal rebar on each course of this second vertical wall (3-4 course at most). And not use vertical as I feel the horizontal would stabilize. I would also try to get bottom course of this wall below frost line and burry into virgin soil.

      Any suggestions on this second short wall?

      Should I still add vertical rebar? If so should they be in concrete piers maybe 4-6” diameter or in soil?

      Once done I will form, level and pour the concrete collar.

      Horizontal shelves would be layers with some sand before underlayment.






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    15. #35
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      Wow! Looking great!

    16. #36
      Mutchinator is offline Member
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      Pond Rebuild Advice and Structural Questions

      Progress is slow but steady - expect to pick pace up next week and have the second wall complete. The onto forming collar and pour. Still going to add 4” concrete block cap to bottom wall.

      Bottom course of second wall will be one block below top of bottom wall.

      Second wall will be four course. Vertical rebar ever other hole and horizontal between bottom/second and third/top course.

      I was then going to level and form up the top collar. The vertical rebar from top wall I was going to bend and tie into the rebar which will be in collar. Overlap 2’.

      Single pour for collar - I am both fill in the cinder block holes as well as form the collar.

      This should lock it all together.

      Collar will be 6” thick and 18” wide with dual rebar.

      It will also rest on virgin soil with 2b under.

      Soil is virgin heavy clay and I will have
      few inches 2b under. The bottom course will around 30” or so.

      I am debating on a concrete footer for bottom course of second wall.

      Do you feel this is needed?
      Any other advice?

      Thanks - J

      Note - side drawing does not show correct 4 course wall and left side just to show reference.









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      Last edited by Mutchinator; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:58 AM.

    17. #37
      spkennyva is offline Senior Member
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      Looking really nice! The setting and construction seem awesome.

      I'm sure you've looked into this and made a deliberate decision, but I would STRONGLY recommend not going forward with a 6 inch bed of gravel/stone on the bottom of the pond. This will quickly fill with all sorts of organic matter and you'll never be able to manage the nutrients. If your objective is to keep koi, then I'm very sure this will be a huge regret for you in the future. If this is just a pond to enjoy and fish are a secondary consideration, then I suspect it will be OK, but this has the beginnings to be an awesome KOI pond - you just need to rethink a couple aspects of your plan.

      Good luck!!

    18. #38
      Mutchinator is offline Member
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      Yes I know that is a very contentious topic and I’ve done ton of research and actually working with Eric Triplett on design. It will be bottom gravel filter but I can always make adjustments down road if needed.

      I have grid sized properly - and yes the fish are secondary. I want more of a ecosystem look and not looking to raise prize koi.

      Previous pond was similar design just smaller and I had zero issues in 8 years -

      Appreciate the feedback tho - I just need to get these walls up but the rain is killing my schedule


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    19. #39
      msegger is offline Senior Member
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      as much as you putting into this pond, I would have prize koi in it and nothing else. And yes you should have a footer under the 2nd wall - wouldve shouldve couldve - right, you came this far, no cutting corners anymore

    20. #40
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      Yea - I’m working on this today and it’s such fun with the torrential rain cutting into my days lol - the tarps are up and hoping to have this done within a week.

      Footer ready with stone just need to mix and pour -

      I love the ecosystem look - especially where I live to tie it into the landscape.

      Two of my favorite koi are being housed by a friend - have them back in a month when ready for water and fish. Tackling the waterfalls and stream will be the easier part I feel.


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