The eyes and the bend on the right side of the koi demand my attention on the first koi..
The eyes and the bend on the right side of the koi demand my attention on the first koi..
Last edited by Orlando; 06-12-2022 at 08:25 PM.
Update:
Last yearīs fry. They are now 10-20 cm. Most of them has an other mother, a bekko-utsuri:
Nice batch Simon. Three that especially catch my eye in post #23 are:
- shiro utsuri pointed downward in 5th photo
- ginrin bekko in lower right of 6th photo
- sanke pointed downward in 12th photo
Update:
Two years later. I have no success in growing them big, and they are only 20-30 cm.
I have been looking for good pond grade koi with 1) good confirmation, 2) good ginrin.
I am most curious about the 5 marked with A to E. I would like to have your opinion on those. Thanks!
Last edited by SimonW; 07-14-2023 at 08:09 AM.
I understand that when something is branded as this or that many people will think that this thing must be this or that. But I am not as sure, just as Socrates said: Wise people are doubtful :-)
But I know that the proteins in cat food consist of the same 20 types of amino acids just as the proteins in the koi food do. And if we humans can eat tuna and whales then koi also can eat meat or chicken.
Anyway, I used only koi food the first years, and I did not get bigger koi for that. The problem is the low water temperature in combination with my not having power-fed them. But I donīt wish big koi - too difficult to move in and out for over-wintering. Instead, I care for the looks. So, what do you think about their future looks? Thanks.
Last edited by SimonW; 07-14-2023 at 05:29 PM.
Thanks for posting the update Simon. Focusing on the characteristics that you mentioned, good confirmation (shape) and ginrin, and the 5 that you specified, I think E is the best in those areas, followed by D, then A. B has good confirmation, but I am not seeing much ginrin. C has good ginrin, but is kind of pudgy.
You mentioned the slow growth. Do you know other koi keepers in your climate and whether or not their results on size are similar? Also I wonder if after many years, the koi can get big, but just taking a long time to get there.
Sorry Simon but these are just pond fish. They all have confirmation issues and most are severe.
Simon, I see the majority of your fish in the pics appear to be females judging by there girths.
Your fish appear to be all very well fed.
Being a man of many math fractions, how does the food ratio to fish yield compare to temperature,
assumed fish lengths, stocking density and water quality, etc. Compare using cat food.
The growon's, I have selected from a friend,which have done well have been from his selection of
imported Japanese parents. Over there.
I have relied on the colour quality and strength from the genes of the parents,but tilapia food for general
growth.
It all takes time.
Thank you all for your replies!
Matt:
Thanks for your kind words.
I have not tried to find out whether there is anyone in my climate that grows big koi. I have visited some koi ponds and I have never seen a koi bigger than 70 cm (judged by my eyes so not accurate). Considering the long winter and the high energy cost I have given up the idea of growing big koi. After all my back does not allow me to lift a big koi with water that easily exceeds 20 kg, more than often in uncomfortable positions. I got once lumbago once because of this and was bedridden for one whole week, and I donīt dare to take this risk again.
kdh:
Thank you for your honest words! Yes, they are only pond grade. I have not wished for better because I cannot provide them with better growth conditions, so I would feel pity if I after all got a superb fry.
And even if I can give my fry good growth conditions, I cannot get back any money for my effort and costs, as not so many Swedes have good knowledge in this hobby and a decent koi that costs over 200 USD is already way too expensive for them, and a good koi for over 1 000 USD is just unimaginable.
coolwon:
Thank you for your kind advice! I have not cared so much for how much I feed them. When the water temperature is so low (summer months, that is, 3-4 months, 18-20 centigrade, winter in-doors 13-15 centigrade 8-9 months) all the other growth factors become neglectable.
Finally, I found the absolutely best advice to grow really big koi. Every koi hobbyist with self-esteem should try!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8EckLdGZS0
coolwon:
Lucky you!
Last edited by SimonW; 07-15-2023 at 08:20 AM.
I've watched that video and during the interview one of the visitors (a famous koi breeder) says, that it would take him 100 years to achieve that level in this hobby.
Koiphen 2023 Koi Person of the Year!
Body shape is genetic. So even if you gave them the best feeding regiment. They would still have bad shape. Usually looks worse the bigger they get. The vid you posted is great. However those koi are genetically predisposed to grow large. All of there koi do not get this large. As a matter of fact few do.
My vote is E. Nice body structure and really like the gin rin.
I don't know the cause, but most of the pictures seem to show an unusual body structure, with a disproportionate girth relative to length. I've been raising fry for a while and almost never see body types like the ones above. I don't know if this is a genetic trait, or something related to the conditions there were raised in. My guess is genetics. Please don't take this as criticism, as I'm just sharing my honest perspective. I applaud your efforts and definitely respect you reaching out to others for comments.
spkennyva:
Thanks a lot for your honest opinion. I have had the same thought and have been selecting for more slander ones. You donīt how chubby many of those I have not kept were!
I wonder if you and others can help me to decide if these koi have bad proportion between girth and length:
The main females:
I guess that this one (shiro bekko/utsuri) has an OK ratio? This one is mom to most of my fry.
I guess this one (sanke) has a too chubby body? This one has given some fry.
The main males:
This none ginrin sanke is slander. Does it have a nice ratio?
I think that this one (Kohaku) has an OK ratio though a little bit chubby?
I think that this one also has en OK ratio?
This one (ginrin goshiki with a very white base) also has an OK ratio?
Thanks for your opinion again!
Last edited by SimonW; 07-16-2023 at 04:59 AM.