• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 20 of 20

    Thread: What causes short bodied koi? Can the short body grow longer?

    1. #1
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      773

      What causes short bodied koi? Can the short body grow longer?

      Hello friends:

      I bought some 20 small Israeli koi (I guess tosai) last fall, and half of them now show short, fat body confirmation, though they have not grown so much in length, at least no way close to so many koipheners have accomplished. So I guess that I have not been over-feeding them.

      I wonder if anything else than genes caused this, and whether they will grow slimmer if I feed less (even less growth of course). If I cannot get them slimmer I will rehome them.

      Other half of them are normal.
      Last edited by SimonW; 05-26-2021 at 04:54 PM.

    2. #2
      EmeraldDragon's Avatar
      EmeraldDragon is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2021
      Location
      Walnut, California
      Posts
      869
      There are 6 reasons that could contributes to this. If I understand your question right. Genetics (genes) could be one of them that you are facing. I doubt that you are having problems with pond size, or overcrowding. And definitely, I am pretty sure you feed them well.

      http://eblogin.com/6-reasons-fish-pond-arent-growing/
      Last edited by EmeraldDragon; 05-26-2021 at 04:57 PM.
      -=[Sunny]=-

      I have served, I have fought to defends the rights and freedom for all Americans. I am a proud Retired Veteran!

      Zen's Pond and Garden - The Zen Zone that keeps our sanity alive every day!


    3. #3
      Orlando is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Orlando
      Posts
      1,063
      That's a loaded question Genes as you've already mentioned, environment (amount of space), poor feeding practices or low quality foods, proper ratio of koi per galonage, water changes, but in your case based on what you mentioned am leaning towards genetics. Am shure I missed some others will chime in.

    4. #4
      EmeraldDragon's Avatar
      EmeraldDragon is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2021
      Location
      Walnut, California
      Posts
      869
      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      That's a loaded question Genes as you've already mentioned, environment (amount of space), poor feeding practices or low quality foods, proper ratio of koi per galonage, water changes, but in your case based on what you mentioned am leaning towards genetics. Am shure I missed some others will chime in.
      I am pretty sure the other reasons also contributes. But I didn't really want to say it out loud. LOL! I just sited the link instead.
      -=[Sunny]=-

      I have served, I have fought to defends the rights and freedom for all Americans. I am a proud Retired Veteran!

      Zen's Pond and Garden - The Zen Zone that keeps our sanity alive every day!


    5. #5
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      773
      Thank you for your quick reply!

      I think that you may have misunderstood my question. I am not worried about the slow growth, but the ugly fat confirmation.

      By the way, I may need to add that none of the small sanke or gomoro or kujaku or ginrin variants have developed this fat confirmation, only single-colored non-ginrin ones. Maybe it is a goi-koi problem?
      Last edited by SimonW; 05-26-2021 at 05:55 PM.

    6. #6
      Orlando is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Orlando
      Posts
      1,063
      There's one angle that I should mention but it comes down to genetics. From the same spawn I've seen koi reach 11" the first year and some of their siblings 2", that's right up there with the issues your seeing.

    7. #7
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      2,621
      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      Hello friends:

      I bought some 20 small Israeli koi (I guess tosai) last fall, and half of them now show short, fat body confirmation, though they have not grown so much in length, at least no way close to so many koipheners have accomplished. So I guess that I have not been over-feeding them.

      I wonder if anything else than genes caused this, and whether they will grow slimmer if I feed less (even less growth of course). If I cannot get them slimmer I will rehome them.

      Other half of them are normal.


      .If it's not genes, then their mother smoked too much when she was pregnant.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    8. #8
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      773
      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      .If it's not genes, then their mother smoked too much when she was pregnant.
      Not likely, but may have ridden too much bicycles!

    9. #9
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      2,621
      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      There's one angle that I should mention but it comes down to genetics. From the same spawn I've seen koi reach 11" the first year and some of their siblings 2", that's right up there with the issues your seeing.
      MUMMY, which one is DADDY, do you know?
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    10. #10
      MikeM is online now Super Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      May 2004
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      1,090
      Since half are OK and half are not, and all have been grown in the same conditions, genetics seems the answer.

    11. #11
      Orlando is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Orlando
      Posts
      1,063
      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      MUMMY, which one is DADDY, do you know?
      After doing some research to see if there's an answer it comes down to 50%/50% probability so I don't think there's a way to pinpoint who would be the culprit.

    12. #12
      EmeraldDragon's Avatar
      EmeraldDragon is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2021
      Location
      Walnut, California
      Posts
      869
      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      MUMMY, which one is DADDY, do you know?
      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      After doing some research to see if there's an answer it comes down to 50%/50% probability so I don't think there's a way to pinpoint who would be the culprit.
      It's the brother-in-law, no, no, no... Wait a minute, it's the cousin... or the son... Hmmm which one?
      -=[Sunny]=-

      I have served, I have fought to defends the rights and freedom for all Americans. I am a proud Retired Veteran!

      Zen's Pond and Garden - The Zen Zone that keeps our sanity alive every day!


    13. #13
      delbert is offline Supporting Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2013
      Location
      NE Arkansas 7a
      Posts
      3,012
      Half the fish are better eaters.

    14. #14
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      773
      Quote Originally Posted by delbert View Post
      Half the fish are better eaters.
      The half with normal confirmation are not bigger. They are actually slightly shorter than the fat/short-bodied ones.

    15. #15
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      2,621
      Separate all the fish you are not happy with, and feed the HIGHEST % PROTEIN food you can find on the market.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    16. #16
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      773
      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      Separate all the fish you are not happy with, and feed the HIGHEST % PROTEIN food you can find on the market.
      Do you imply that food with low protein content (34%) can be the cause to my obese koi?

      I realize that I should not say that they are short-bodied but obese, as their heads are of normal size. with other words their heads are of similar size as the normal ones´, but their body is much wider.

    17. #17
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      2,621
      I went by the heading!

      Is 34% low?

      Whats high?

      Deliver more water at a higher velocity.

      Create a water treadmill
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    18. #18
      SimonW is online now Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2018
      Location
      Sweden
      Posts
      773
      Can it be that these koi are not supposed to grow so "fast" (much slower than what experienced koipheners´ koi have accomplished), therefore their growth in length and their head has not caught up with their growth in width?
      Last edited by SimonW; 05-29-2021 at 08:47 AM.

    19. #19
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
      is Garfield is my name DIY is my
      game
       
      Feeling:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2016
      Location
      Durban South Africa
      Posts
      2,621
      But 1/2 do this!

      &

      The other 1/2 do that?
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    20. #20
      EmeraldDragon's Avatar
      EmeraldDragon is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Mar 2021
      Location
      Walnut, California
      Posts
      869
      Quote Originally Posted by SimonW View Post
      Hello friends:

      I bought some 20 small Israeli koi (I guess tosai) last fall, and half of them now show short, fat body confirmation, though they have not grown so much in length, at least no way close to so many koipheners have accomplished. So I guess that I have not been over-feeding them.

      I wonder if anything else than genes caused this, and whether they will grow slimmer if I feed less (even less growth of course). If I cannot get them slimmer I will rehome them.

      Other half of them are normal.
      Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldDragon View Post
      There are 6 reasons that could contributes to this. If I understand your question right. Genetics (genes) could be one of them that you are facing. I doubt that you are having problems with pond size, or overcrowding. And definitely, I am pretty sure you feed them well.

      http://eblogin.com/6-reasons-fish-pond-arent-growing/
      Quote Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
      That's a loaded question Genes as you've already mentioned, environment (amount of space), poor feeding practices or low quality foods, proper ratio of koi per galonage, water changes, but in your case based on what you mentioned am leaning towards genetics. Am shure I missed some others will chime in.
      OK, Simon.... Bringing you back to your questions... The answer that Orlando and I original responded is genetic. But it could be because of Israeli koi descendant too. They are not just like Japanese Koi

      What I have been told so many times, the breeder has a lot to do with the outcome of the Koi too. That is why everyone goes to a respectable breeders in Japan, if they want a show quality Koi. They don't go to Israeli.
      -=[Sunny]=-

      I have served, I have fought to defends the rights and freedom for all Americans. I am a proud Retired Veteran!

      Zen's Pond and Garden - The Zen Zone that keeps our sanity alive every day!


    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •