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  • Results 1 to 12 of 12

    Thread: K1 Moving bed vs zakki shower

    1. #1
      Rich8888ri is offline Senior Member
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      K1 Moving bed vs bakki shower

      So i myself have both a k1 moving bed and a shower with ceramic media. The question is why? I did it because this is what most professional ponds seem to have, but why both? Why not just get a bigger moving bed (200 liter,300 liter ect. ) or a bigger shower (longer, more tiers..)?
      I guess a good question would be, Which one of them converts more waste and food?
      Im just wondering why we need both and not just use a larger one of the 2?
      Last edited by Rich8888ri; 05-09-2021 at 02:36 AM.

    2. #2
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Shower. Maybe more effective filtration and MORE air?
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    3. #3
      Rich8888ri is offline Senior Member
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      I was told by a professional pond guy that a shower actually removes air from the water due to its nitrification process. Some other koi people were at the meeting and agreed with him.

    4. #4
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      The returning water from the tower interfaces with the pond water, to release the oxygen from the air at the ponds surface.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    5. #5
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is online now Administrator ~ WWKC Treasurer
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      Quote Originally Posted by Rich8888ri View Post
      I was told by a professional pond guy that a shower actually removes air from the water due to its nitrification process. Some other koi people were at the meeting and agreed with him.
      I'd like to see the information that says that. It is contrary to everything I've ever been told about a shower. I'm
      assuming by "air" he means oxygen?
      The nitrification process seems to be the same in other bio filters and so it wouldn't be isolated to a shower... they
      are all essentially doing the same thing.
      --Steve
      ..WWKC Treasurer


    6. #6
      msegger is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I'd like to see the information that says that. It is contrary to everything I've ever been told about a shower. I'm
      assuming by "air" he means oxygen?
      The nitrification process seems to be the same in other bio filters and so it wouldn't be isolated to a shower... they
      are all essentially doing the same thing.
      I believe this guy might get into this question

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIzGGurDkmA

    7. #7
      montwila's Avatar
      montwila is offline Supporting Member ~ Koi Health Care Committee Member
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      I do not have the science but here are some "facts" that might help.

      Approximately 70% of the oxygen used in your pond's system is by the biological conversion of ammonia (nitrogen cycle) not he fish.

      Oxygen levels after the bioconversion are always lower than the pond water it filters. So the returning water should be aerated before it gets back to the pond such as a series of waterfalls. If water is returned directly into the pond via TPR/GPR or very low waterfall, vigorous aeration within the pond is needed to reach 80% or higher of O2 saturation (DO) at that temperature and elevation within the pond itself.

      Bio converters must allow a proper dwell time:

      Chambers must have a very slow flow or they channel. Chambers require a dwell time of up to 20 minutes and convert ammonia at only a few hundred gallons per hour (GPH).

      Moving bed filters can move several hundred GPH due to the larger surface area media usually used and the dwell time can be reduced to a few minutes. Approx. 4-6 minutes.

      Trickle showers filter a few hundred GPH (or less) and perform better than showers at reducing pollutants. They often return water at higher DO saturation levels due to this low flow.

      Showers can flow several thousand GPH and are almost as efficient as the above with a dwell time of only a few seconds. If they off-gas then they probably are as efficient or even more efficient than the above. How much they off-gas in the few seconds they are in contact with the atmosphere has yet to be proven. It is not surprising that they also return water to the pond with a lower DO level than they receive. I am sure it is higher than static filters over all. This is because the water in the shower is exposed to air for almost the entire time it is being 'filtered'.

      Each filter has attributes that are positive or potentially detrimental. Waste water facilities often use more than one type, usually static and showers combined.

      Which is better? Showers require more electricity (due to elevation above the pond) but probably increase the turn over rate of the pond in a small foot print. MB filters require a large foot print to convert the same amount of ammonia but potentially require less energy. If electricity is not a consideration then the shower's potential off-gassing makes it the better option in my humble opinion. Especially with a good solids/fines removal system before the shower so it keeps the pores of the media open.
      Last edited by montwila; 05-10-2021 at 02:17 PM. Reason: clarification

    8. #8
      Rich8888ri is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by msegger View Post
      I believe this guy might get into this question

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIzGGurDkmA
      Thank you so much.. This video proves that point 100 percent that 02 is lower with a shower or moving bed.. Its an awesome video to watch and understand more about oxygen levels.

    9. #9
      Rich8888ri is offline Senior Member
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      Thank you for your post. This seems to answer the question.. Basically both of them do the same job, its just about cost.. So having both a shower and a moving bed is not necessary. You can just double up on one or the other.

    10. #10
      Danny2fresh is offline Junior Member
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      Glad this thread came up. I currently have a S/G filter in a 55 gal drum flowing into another 55 gal drum thats a moving bed filter. If I ever have an issue or need to increase my biological filtration, would another 55 gal moving bed filter after the first one be beneficial or would going with a bakki/zakki shower be better? Reason i’m considering a shower is because I like they way they look and would replace my spillway going back into the pond.

    11. #11
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Could the second moving bed be installed parallel to the first one for nutritional reasons of the inhabitants of the new filter.
      Find more about Weather in Durban, ZA

    12. #12
      Nuspeed007 is offline Senior Member
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      With the Bakki shower system most likely it is shutdown during winter season in snow belt region, you can run MBBR year round. If you have power outage, Bakki's beneficial bacteria/fauna does not survive more than 6 hrs dry. Bakki system is typically more noisy than MBBR, you neighbors may not like that soothing whitewater in mid of summer night where windows open all night long. Many ponds that I have seen operate with MBBR & Bakki for redundancy, especially when it is overstocked.

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