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  • Results 1 to 14 of 14

    Thread: Fluid Bed Biofilter vs Static Bed Shower Biofilter

    1. #1
      Tehachapi Pond is offline Junior Member
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      Fluid Bed Biofilter vs Static Bed Shower Biofilter

      Hi All: New here. Have been lurking. I would appreciate your thoughts comparing fluid bed filters vs shower filters.

      It seems like fluid bed filters require water to come in under pressure (as opposed to gravity), but are smaller compared to shower filters.

      Shower filters seem to be able to be gravity fed or pressure fed, and tend to be tall/big.

      What other pros and cons are there? Which do you prefer, and why?

      Is there a rule of thumb for amount of media per gallon of water, or number of fish, or??? (Saying bigger is better is not that helpful.)

      Many thanks in advance!
      Paulette

    2. #2
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      All moving bed filters are non-pressurized and gravity flow. Both need some type of pump to create the pressure differential to force flow. Obviously a shower/trickle tower requires greater pressure from the pump to lift the water higher above the shower.

      I've never seen a controled study measuring denitrification or degassing for a defined amount of media in a shower vs moving bed. It would be interesting to know if one is substantially better. Seems a shower would be better at aeration and degassing.
      Several of the filter media manufactures have recommendations for pounds of food processed vs their media. I see vendors listing 2cf of K1 in a moving bed able to process the waste from .55 to .65 pounds of food consumed. Some of the mfgs for shower media have posted guidelines also.

      Biggest downside I've seen to showers is noise, ugly and put a pond smell into the air on hot days.
      Last edited by batman; 05-09-2021 at 10:43 AM.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    3. #3
      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      Another negative for shower filters is the additional power/$ needed to push the water to the top of the assembly.

    4. #4
      NaturalK is offline Senior Member
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      I think showers are more efficient cause ceramics media are just more efficient per cu ft.

    5. #5
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tehachapi Pond View Post
      Hi All: New here. Have been lurking. I would appreciate your thoughts comparing fluid bed filters vs shower filters.

      It seems like fluid bed filters require water to come in under pressure (as opposed to gravity), but are smaller compared to shower filters.

      Shower filters seem to be able to be gravity fed or pressure fed, and tend to be tall/big.

      What other pros and cons are there? Which do you prefer, and why?

      Is there a rule of thumb for amount of media per gallon of water, or number of fish, or??? (Saying bigger is better is not that helpful.)

      Many thanks in advance!
      Paulette
      Welcome and thanks for joining Koiphen!
      --Steve

    6. #6
      Tehachapi Pond is offline Junior Member
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      Thanks all for your thoughts!

      I'm going to nix the shower filter and go with my bio in a closed container. Two options:
      1) A downflow static bed of media, no airstones
      2) An upflow moving bed with air and something like K2.

      What are the pros and cons of each?

      Many Thanks in Advance!
      Paulette

    7. #7
      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      We need to know more, like:
      1. Volume of pond
      2. Number and size of fish
      3. What kind of particulate/pre-filter will there be to remove the "big stuff" before the water goes into the bio filter?
      4. If there's a skimmer, where does it connect in the system?
      5. Water flow of pump
      6. What bio media are you planning to use?
      7. Cost of electricity in your area

      I considered becoming a koi pond contractor and decided against it. To really do it right is expensive enough that it scares off most people, and that's just the cost of the parts alone, never mind doubling it for a profit! The point is, to have a truly low maintenance pond is costly, and any cost "savings" is made up for in the form of more maintenance and less reliability. So really, it all starts with two questions:
      1. What's your budget?
      2. How much are you willing to pay every month (forever) for electricity?
      Last edited by kimini; 05-09-2021 at 04:14 PM.

    8. #8
      batman's Avatar
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      Don't know your definition of a closed container but it'll need to be open or vented. It can have a cover if vented. Static beds of filter media closely packed will eventually load up from bio die off and any collection of debris from the pond water. Often to the point of clogging. Moving beds are self cleaning. The oxygen from bed aeration maximizes bio conversion of the media and increases degassing.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    9. #9
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by batman View Post
      Biggest downside I've seen to showers is noise, ugly and put a pond smell into the air on hot days.
      This is a new one. I've never heard that. Mine is in a shed so can't test it but they've never smelled like anything.

      I've had upflow moving beds (air added) and a shower. For me the shower has worked far better than the two moving beds.

      I've not heard a reference to how many fish one would support but I have been told the ideally you should flow about 2k gph over 1 cu. ft. of media.
      I have never measured mine so have no idea if I even followed that rule or not.
      --Steve

    10. #10
      Tehachapi Pond is offline Junior Member
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      Dear Kimini:

      Many thanks for your response and questions! I shall endeavor to answer them.

      1) Pond volume 350 gallons. Pond is a 4 person spa that has been converted into a pond.
      2) Fish - 4 koi, approx 8" each, 2 shubunkins also about 8" each.
      3) Planning to install 55-gallon drum sand/gravel filter, ala Birdman's design. Open to suggestions for mechanical filtration.
      4) No skimmer, no bottom drain.
      5) Currently 800 gph pump in bottom of pond. Planning to upgrade to 2000-2600 gph pump. I'm looking at ThePondGuy 2000 gph SolidFlo G2 pump for $190. Since I don't have a bottom drain, this design seems to be a good choice. Specs on the 2000 G2: max flow 1900 gph, max head 9.5', gives about 600 gph at 7', 70 Watts. Their 2650 G2 pump is $240, max head 11 ft, gives 1250 gph at 7ft, 95 Watts. I am open to suggestions.
      6) Currently have 6" green Matala pad and 3" dark gray Matala that I would like to use in new bio set-up if possible. Also have 6 lbs bio-ceramic rings that I'd like to use in new bio set-up.
      7) Electricity in Southern California is about $0.23 per KWh.

      Budget is shoestring (hence DIY S&G and reusing Matala and ceramic rings), although I am looking for a set-up that is relatively low maintenance and easy to maintain (I ain't no spring chicken no more).

      I'm looking to max my electrical system at around 120 Watts.

      I have purchased a 13W UV from ThePondGuy. Have not yet installed because I'm thinking about all these other changes. I plan to put it between the S&G and bio filters. With the S&G mechanical filter maybe I won't need it???

      Currently have an upflow combined mechanical/bio filter with the 800 gph pump. I have 7' of head, which means my current pump drops to about 395 gph. System worked okay for first 2 seasons but now fish are way bigger than filter capacity! The Matala pads are the main filter medium. They do so-so for mechanical, but I have to clean them too often for any bio to get well established. Realize that I need to separate mechanical and bio filtration. I have 4 hardy water lilies and 4 Fairy Lily plants. In the winter, the water lilies go dormant and I don't get any filtration from them. The Fairy Lilies did good over the winter.

      Regarding winter, I don't have to turn off my system. Average low temps are in the mid-20s. The 800 gph pump circulates enough water so nothing freezes.

      I also run one to two 12" air stones year around.

      For new bio filter, I assume downflow is going to be better since it would be gravity fed from the S&G filter.

      Pond is under a pergola so it doesn't get a lot of sunlight.

      I attached a couple pictures. Could not get them going the right direction to save my life. So sorry!

      On the left side of the pond is a two tier, three box fountain that is currently not running (Have to turn off in winter as it will freeze).

      On the right side of pond, behind deck is a large tan pot with a black BBQ lid. That's my current upflow filter box. It's 22" wide and 16" from bottom to the two outlet pipes near the top. My hope is to keep this filter box and use it for the new biofilter.

      Currently all pond plants are out of pond because I just finished a .38 ppm salt water course to get rid of epistylis, which I believe was caused by my crappy water/filtration.

      That's my long-winded answer.
      Thank you!
      Paulette
      Tehachapi Pond

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    11. #11
      icu2's Avatar
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      Pictures can be tricky on the forum
      Here's a tutorial that might help for the next ones...

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...s-on-the-forum
      --Steve

    12. #12
      EmeraldDragon's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tehachapi Pond View Post
      Dear Kimini:

      Many thanks for your response and questions! I shall endeavor to answer them.

      1) Pond volume 350 gallons. Pond is a 4 person spa that has been converted into a pond.
      2) Fish - 4 koi, approx 8" each, 2 shubunkins also about 8" each.
      3) Planning to install 55-gallon drum sand/gravel filter, ala Birdman's design. Open to suggestions for mechanical filtration.
      4) No skimmer, no bottom drain.
      5) Currently 800 gph pump in bottom of pond. Planning to upgrade to 2000-2600 gph pump. I'm looking at ThePondGuy 2000 gph SolidFlo G2 pump for $190. Since I don't have a bottom drain, this design seems to be a good choice. Specs on the 2000 G2: max flow 1900 gph, max head 9.5', gives about 600 gph at 7', 70 Watts. Their 2650 G2 pump is $240, max head 11 ft, gives 1250 gph at 7ft, 95 Watts. I am open to suggestions.
      6) Currently have 6" green Matala pad and 3" dark gray Matala that I would like to use in new bio set-up if possible. Also have 6 lbs bio-ceramic rings that I'd like to use in new bio set-up.
      7) Electricity in Southern California is about $0.23 per KWh.

      Budget is shoestring (hence DIY S&G and reusing Matala and ceramic rings), although I am looking for a set-up that is relatively low maintenance and easy to maintain (I ain't no spring chicken no more).

      I'm looking to max my electrical system at around 120 Watts.

      I have purchased a 13W UV from ThePondGuy. Have not yet installed because I'm thinking about all these other changes. I plan to put it between the S&G and bio filters. With the S&G mechanical filter maybe I won't need it???

      Currently have an upflow combined mechanical/bio filter with the 800 gph pump. I have 7' of head, which means my current pump drops to about 395 gph. System worked okay for first 2 seasons but now fish are way bigger than filter capacity! The Matala pads are the main filter medium. They do so-so for mechanical, but I have to clean them too often for any bio to get well established. Realize that I need to separate mechanical and bio filtration. I have 4 hardy water lilies and 4 Fairy Lily plants. In the winter, the water lilies go dormant and I don't get any filtration from them. The Fairy Lilies did good over the winter.

      Regarding winter, I don't have to turn off my system. Average low temps are in the mid-20s. The 800 gph pump circulates enough water so nothing freezes.

      I also run one to two 12" air stones year around.

      For new bio filter, I assume downflow is going to be better since it would be gravity fed from the S&G filter.

      Pond is under a pergola so it doesn't get a lot of sunlight.

      I attached a couple pictures. Could not get them going the right direction to save my life. So sorry!

      On the left side of the pond is a two tier, three box fountain that is currently not running (Have to turn off in winter as it will freeze).

      On the right side of pond, behind deck is a large tan pot with a black BBQ lid. That's my current upflow filter box. It's 22" wide and 16" from bottom to the two outlet pipes near the top. My hope is to keep this filter box and use it for the new biofilter.

      Currently all pond plants are out of pond because I just finished a .38 ppm salt water course to get rid of epistylis, which I believe was caused by my crappy water/filtration.

      That's my long-winded answer.
      Thank you!
      Paulette
      Tehachapi Pond

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      I was just going to say it looks familiar in configuration. I have an exact same size spa (well more or less) at my parent's house (now my sister living there). WOW! Yesterday, my DW just mentioned it that if we would have live there instead of my sister. We could have converted it to Koi Pond, and now I am reading about this post. It must not be a coincidence, right?
      -=[Sunny]=-

      I have served, I have fought to defends the rights and freedom for all Americans. I am a proud Retired Veteran!

      Zen's Pond and Garden - The Zen Zone that keeps our sanity alive every day!


    13. #13
      Tehachapi Pond is offline Junior Member
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      Dear Sunny:

      If/when you do decide to convert, I have details and pictures about what I did right (and wrong) that I can share. I did the conversion myself and it came out pretty good overall. There was no info. on YouTube about doing what I did so I had to wing it.

      Paulette
      Tehachapi Pond

    14. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tehachapi Pond View Post
      Dear Sunny:

      If/when you do decide to convert, I have details and pictures about what I did right (and wrong) that I can share. I did the conversion myself and it came out pretty good overall. There was no info. on YouTube about doing what I did so I had to wing it.

      Paulette
      Tehachapi Pond
      Thanks Paulette, will keep that in mind. Currently, my aunt using it for gardening. All the equipment for the spa had been taken out years ago. And it's all filled up with soil at the moment. But if and when, I get my hand on it and they let me do it. I will as for the info.
      -=[Sunny]=-

      I have served, I have fought to defends the rights and freedom for all Americans. I am a proud Retired Veteran!

      Zen's Pond and Garden - The Zen Zone that keeps our sanity alive every day!


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