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    Thread: Another Pond! ... going with liner!

    1. #41
      icu2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by schreiberkoi View Post
      Thank you! Any thoughts on this plan?
      It's pretty much the same design I did in post #16 so I'd still go with that if more BD's and filtration isn't
      doable. I would still not do a BD to pump type design, but save up for at least one Ultra III sieve. I really think
      a mechanical filter before the pumps is a must. But at the very least, if trying to do a BD > pump > s/g filter
      design, add a drain on the bottom of each of the s/g filters to be able to release larger debris that gets trapped under
      the s/g filter grates. I'd also go ahead and dig a filtration pit now so you could add filters and have them be at pond
      level so the BD and skimmer plumbing could gravity feed them if you wanted (needed) to in the future.

      I think there is a temptation to either split the return of a s/g filter to feed more than one thing or combine the output
      of 2 s/g filters to save on plumbing as opposed to just running one return per filter to wherever the desired output will
      be. I've seen a lot of s/g filters returns that don't work as anticipated because combining and/or splitting them up. I'd
      just keep a constant "one filter, one return" type design. I think your design does this but thought I'd toss it out there
      because sometimes people see multiple lines in one place and think, "why don't I just use a larger pipe and carry all
      the water in one?", and sometimes it complicates things even more.

      Will the island get some type of support around it? I've never done anything like it but all the other designs like this
      that I've seen has the island surrounded with some type of support that I presume is to keep it from collapsing into
      the pond, much like a collar does around the pond perimeter. Do you plan to do something similarly?

      I'm not sure who the young person is in the earlier picture standing on the island, but she gives scale to the size of
      the project and it's a huge undertaking!
      --Steve



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    2. #42
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      It's pretty much the same design I did in post #16 so I'd still go with that if more BD's and filtration isn't
      doable. I would still not do a BD to pump type design, but save up for at least one Ultra III sieve. I really think
      a mechanical filter before the pumps is a must. But at the very least, if trying to do a BD > pump > s/g filter
      design, add a drain on the bottom of each of the s/g filters to be able to release larger debris that gets trapped under
      the s/g filter grates. I'd also go ahead and dig a filtration pit now so you could add filters and have them be at pond
      level so the BD and skimmer plumbing could gravity feed them if you wanted (needed) to in the future.

      I think there is a temptation to either split the return of a s/g filter to feed more than one thing or combine the output
      of 2 s/g filters to save on plumbing as opposed to just running one return per filter to wherever the desired output will
      be. I've seen a lot of s/g filters returns that don't work as anticipated because combining and/or splitting them up. I'd
      just keep a constant "one filter, one return" type design. I think your design does this but thought I'd toss it out there
      because sometimes people see multiple lines in one place and think, "why don't I just use a larger pipe and carry all
      the water in one?", and sometimes it complicates things even more.

      Will the island get some type of support around it? I've never done anything like it but all the other designs like this
      that I've seen has the island surrounded with some type of support that I presume is to keep it from collapsing into
      the pond, much like a collar does around the pond perimeter. Do you plan to do something similarly?

      I'm not sure who the young person is in the earlier picture standing on the island, but she gives scale to the size of
      the project and it's a huge undertaking!
      Thanks for your input! One of my current ponds has the skimmer and bottom drain feeding into priming pot then pump going to S/G filters it is 4500gallons and has worked well. They do not have any clean out on the bottom though they are just the original birdman design. This pond will only have pond grade koi but I still want them to be healthy. That's why I thought the same design only with 2 sets would work as well as adding in the anoxic baskets filter area which will be about 30% of the ponds surface area. I currently have a filter pit on the 4500 gallon pond but have had multiple pumps ruined from flooding of the pit for various reasons ... sump pump quitting etc. One of the reasons for wanting to know if it could work at ground level. The island perimeter as well as the perimeter of the pond will have cinder block collar and then just the weight of the water against it to hold in place. And yes I intend on having one barrel for each line. It is my grand daughter in the picture and yes it will be a huge undertaking that's why I need all the help I can get to try not to make costly mistakes that I can not afford along the way. I don't know much about sieves other than they are quiet expensive. I see there are different kinds. I would have loved to have been able to get one of the cetus sieves that were being given away in Colorado but assume they are gone I have not gotten a response back. What would be the difference in the Sieves? Is it the volume of water they can handle or the way they are plumbed?

    3. #43
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      Yes, the different sieves are volume they can handle and the inputs into them. The Cetus can handle about 4700 gph
      and has 1 - 4" input at about $1300 new and the AquaForte Ultra III has 2 - 4" inputs with a cap of about 8000 gph at
      $2000 new. Imo expensive for sure, but worth the cost.
      I know, easy for me to say.
      --Steve



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    4. #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Yes, the different sieves are volume they can handle and the inputs into them. The Cetus can handle about 4700 gph
      and has 1 - 4" input at about $1300 new and the AquaForte Ultra III has 2 - 4" inputs with a cap of about 8000 gph at
      $2000 new. Imo expensive for sure, but worth the cost.
      I know, easy for me to say.
      I am seriously considering trying to get the AquaForte Sieve. Do these have to be in a filter pit or can they be ground level? Also suggestions on vendors? I am also looking at going ahead and buying the koi toilet II bottom drain. The one I currently have in my 4500 gallon pond has the dome. I see they have either with dome or a screen. I am thinking of getting the one with the screen due to the fact I have had smaller koi sucked up into the drain. Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts on this? Wondering if the cleaning and sucking up of waste with be diminished with the screen one vs the dome.
      Last edited by schreiberkoi; 11-29-2021 at 02:37 PM.

    5. #45
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      Got started on the pond in April. With all the Spring rain I was having a hard time trying to keep my island from eroding down, had to keep redoing it with torrential downpours and draining it. There is a lot of clay so it holds water. I attempted from in the pond when it was full of water on more than one occasion because I had koi in it still from a spawn the year before.Name:  1027.jpg
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      Last edited by schreiberkoi; 07-08-2022 at 08:19 AM.

    6. #46
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      Last edited by schreiberkoi; 07-08-2022 at 08:21 AM.

    7. #47
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      Making some progress. Still trying to keep the island from deteriorating anymore. Putting railroad ties around the island to try to help with collapse as well as take away some of the water volume and have a place for plants and getting in and out of the pond. Yes I know my liner folds will be ridiculous! Name:  1061.jpg
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    8. #48
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      After rain finally slowed and island was as complete as I could keep it, I got started on the perimeter. Finally starting to take shape! Name:  1217.jpg
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    9. #49
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      It will have 2 full size Savio skimmers. 2 bottom drains. 4 TPR's. I have 2 8500 advantage external pumps. and 2 Jebao 7900 submersible pumps for the skimmers to go to the waterfall. I am trying to figure out if this will be adequate. I am also wondering about the bottom drains. I only have experience with the koi toilet II 4". Would these work for this or should I try to get aerated? If I go with aerated 4" what does this require for plumbing and air pumps? Island is approximately 15' x 16'. Pond is 30' x 33'. Widest part from island to perimeter is 9' across. Smallest part is 7' across. Widest part of pond from outside of cinder block to cinder block is 35' 6". So deducting 2' 6" for the length of the cinder blocks the pond would be 30' x 33'. Pond would be 4' at deepest ends where the bottom drains are located and 3' 6" on the rest. Wondering if I should back fill and go with 3' 6" on bottom drains and 3' for the rest just to keep down on water volume. Until it is full it will be hard to say, also hoping the railroad ties and that sloped will take away from some of the volume. Guessing water volume to be 16000 ? Had to excavate bigger than originally planned due to erosion. Need all the expert advice I can get on this .... Thanks for your help!

    10. #50
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      Great progress!

      I'm not sure how to figure the volume. Using one of the calculators on line I tried the 30'x33' and subtracted the island size 15'x16'
      and come up with about 36k gallons? But 16k or 36k, I'd fill the depth in to reduce the amount of water. 3' should still keep most
      predators at bay, but just trying to mechanically filter that much water is going to be expensive.

      With just 2 bottom drains I'd either use the aerated BD's or add aeration to the pond along with the KT II's. I used 3/4" pvc for the
      air lines on my home made BD's and fed it through the liner with a mini pipe boot. I think aerated BD's come with similar fittings
      attached to the BD itself so no extra liner penetration and you'd just run another pipe with the 4" BD pipe.

      Name:  Bottom drains 1.jpg
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      Your picture might exaggerate this but did you check the levelness around pond edge to be sure it's all about the same? A water level would
      make quick work of this if you haven't.

      Looks like it's going to be amazing!
      --Steve



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    11. #51
      two_wheeled is offline Senior Member
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      What a unique build!
      Have you thought about how you will use to level that outside wall? As Steve said, a water level would work well.
      It's difficult to tell from the photos but is the ground stable underneath the railroad ties? Last thing you'd want is for that ground to slide after you get the liner and water in.
      Good luck with this build! Can't wait to see it finished.
      -Steve in Phx.
      Novice Extraordinaire

    12. #52
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      Thanks for the information! Yeah I am concerned about water volume... everyone always says go deeper but I also think maybe I should backfill. I did use a homemade water level all the way around island and perimeter, with adding the mortar to try to keep walls intact I am hoping it won't be more than 1/2" to an inch off. That's my hope anyway. I guess I will find out if it ever gets done

    13. #53
      trapper is offline Senior Member
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      This build of yours is awesome and will be gorgeous when done. Keep up the good work..

    14. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by trapper View Post
      This build of yours is awesome and will be gorgeous when done. Keep up the good work..
      Thank you! I sure hope so

    15. #55
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      Need some help please figuring out my plumbing for my pond! Starting with the skimmers to feed my waterfall. I have an existing pond that has a full size savio skimmer. If I remember correctly the instructions indicate putting a hole through the side. With my current pond and the individual who was helping me, directed me to put my pipe in the bottom. It is 4" pipe that goes to a filter pit and wyes into the same line as my bottom drain that is also 4" and after the wye they both go to a priming pot and pump. The pond I am working on I am going to have 2 full size savio skimmers but want to put submersible pumps in and run to my waterfall so do I run 2" pipe from pumps through the side of skimmer? And if so what recommendations for plumbing, do I need swing check valves on the line and shut off valves? Where would they go? Picture is of current pond d skimmer with pipe in bottom and pump is what I will be using in this setup. Thanks in advance for help and suggestions!

    16. #56
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      Nevermind figured it out! I see where there are scored marks on the skimmer after pulling it out to start digging, wondering what everyone's thoughts are on flexible pvc, I have no experience with it. Thinking it might be good for running from the skimmers to waterfall, but don't know if it would be for the TPR'S or anywhere else. Thoughts??

    17. #57
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      I used long runs of 2 inch flex pvc and it has led up perfectly going on 15 + years , no leaks , no cracks, and held up fine with winter temps.

    18. #58
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      Quote Originally Posted by stevek View Post
      I used long runs of 2 inch flex pvc and it has led up perfectly going on 15 + years , no leaks , no cracks, and held up fine with winter temps.
      Thank you! I appreciate the input!

    19. #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by stevek View Post
      I used long runs of 2 inch flex pvc and it has led up perfectly going on 15 + years , no leaks , no cracks, and held up fine with winter temps.
      Steve, do you think the flex had an advantage over plain straight pvc on long runs?
      I know it is more expensive and I've never used it so I'm hesitant to advise one way or the other. I can see the clear advantage
      if it's a complicated run that might need a series extra fittings but did you find it worth the extra cost in other areas?
      --Steve



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    20. #60
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      Steve, do you think the flex had an advantage over plain straight pvc on long runs?
      I know it is more expensive and I've never used it so I'm hesitant to advise one way or the other. I can see the clear advantage
      if it's a complicated run that might need a series extra fittings but did you find it worth the extra cost in other areas?
      As I remember, I didn't really consider straight PVC at the time. My original pond contractor had undersized piping put in, so I decided to rip it all out and lay in the 2 inch flex. I had several curves to deal with, and the flex allowed using one long run with no fittings, so my labor was a lot less. I think I bought a 100 foot roll, so the cost per foot wasn't too bad. I figured that fittings would be a potential point of failure down the road, so the fewer fittings, the better.

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