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    Thread: Koi Pond 6400

    1. #21
      Grumpy is online now Senior Member
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      I used 2" piping for my underwater pond returns, each controlled with a ball valve. The larger pipe added minimal cost and provides the ability to flow more at one point if desired. I note the wind direction when you took your photo, if that is the normal direction you may want to consider placing your skimmer on the down-wind wall, our stronger wind often has a greater impact to surface flow than the mid-depth returns. I too have a shallow bench at 30" below water surface as a safety step for kids & dogs but with only a single water lily pot, but instead installed stainless eyes in my cap stones around the pond to allow hanging baskets in the water for the aquatic plants. The hanging plants are easy to access for regular maintenance and can be easily moved.
      Just my thoughts.

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    2. #22
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      If you put a partial wall around the plant area so the fish can’t get in, it will create high maintenance to keep it clean of debris, mulm and waste. Hanging baskets or floating islands will look nicer (you can place them around the pond as opposed to just one corner) and create more water volume.
      I make floating planters out of geotextile fabric and styrofoam rings. Moss eventually covers the exposed fabric and looks terrific. Since they are soft and bounce around when nudged, they are totally safe for fish. Plus, they are easy to take out if salt or medications are needed in the pond.
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      ________________________________________
      Cheers,
      Ci


    3. #23
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      where do you get styrofoam rings? And is geotextile like landscape fabric? sorry so many questions but your pictures look amazing and I would like to try this. I had a couple plants in there but my koi just ripped them up so this would solve the problem.

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dannielle B. View Post
      where do you get styrofoam rings? And is geotextile like landscape fabric? sorry so many questions but your pictures look amazing and I would like to try this. I had a couple plants in there but my koi just ripped them up so this would solve the problem.
      Styrofoam rings are for floral wreath arrangements, so try craft stores. Geotextile is pond underlayment fabric, like a heavy landscapefabric. Here is a thread I made years ago:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...light=floating

      Now, I skip the sewing part and just zip tie the fabric to the ring, making sure the sharp connecting part is inside the ring with the plants so the fish can’t scrape on it. I still plant bare root, but skip tying the roots in place - just use a rock until the plant stops floating. I also make them shallower. The roots grow through the fabric and the fish keep them pruned!

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      Cheers,
      Ci


    5. #25
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      Cool

      Another slight update to the layout... Would appreciate any feedback. A couple of questions that have come up:
      • Is there a benefit of hard wiring the pump?
      • Recommendations on return covers for the concrete interface?
      • Does anyone have experience with installing a BD in a concrete pond?
      • Do I need to run my BD airlines in conduit?
      • Do I need the return in the top right?



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    6. #26
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      Are you planning to construct this concrete pond yourself? It really is best to hire a seasoned builder for a concrete pond.

      I don't know of any advantage to hardwire a pump. You will want it to be on a GFIC circuit (breaker or plug-in), and changing pumps and making repairs will be much easier if you can close two valves, open 2 unions, unplug the pump and remove it.

      I bought TPR fittings for a liner pond, than made the face of the return flush with the inside face of the concrete pond wall, no cover, just the open pipe.

      I have only experience installing two bottom drains. I used the same general procedure to install my bottom drains that are used for a liner pond, except I made the sure there was sufficient concrete of the proper mix and reinforcement above and around the drain and the pipe as part of the base slab to prevent any differential settlement once the pond is full. This is one of the reasons to hire a professional to place the concrete shell. Send a PM to me if you wish to see the pond, it is about 2 hours from PDX.

      I used schedule 80 PVC pipe for my airlines. I ran two separate lines from the bottom drains all the way to the air manifold.

    7. #27
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      I made mine from block so not on the same level as shotcrete, but I didn't use anything for the pipe
      penetrations but the pipe. I just packed hydraulic cement around the perimeter to seal it.

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      Personally I'd put the all the returns you have drawn in and maybe even a couple more, like one for
      the shelf that someone mentioned will collect debris. Just put a ball valve on each return and turn off
      any you don't use. If you find your shower flow is too much for just the 3 and the waterfall return, you'll
      be glad you have some more. Or you can alternate some you don't really need all the time but can
      activate if you see debris build up in an area with no flow. It's simple to add them now, but hard to
      add them later.

      Like Grumpy, I used 3/4" pvc on my pond with bottom drains for the air lines and I just direct buried
      everything.

      I think your filter design will work well. Might need something for fines with just a sieve and shower... like
      a sand and gravel filter, but much better than the sieve and bead imho.
      --Steve



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    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by *Ci* View Post
      Styrofoam rings are for floral wreath arrangements, so try craft stores. Geotextile is pond underlayment fabric, like a heavy landscapefabric. Here is a thread I made years ago:

      https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showt...light=floating

      Now, I skip the sewing part and just zip tie the fabric to the ring, making sure the sharp connecting part is inside the ring with the plants so the fish can’t scrape on it. I still plant bare root, but skip tying the roots in place - just use a rock until the plant stops floating. I also make them shallower. The roots grow through the fabric and the fish keep them pruned!
      What a great idea. Did this work for the water lilies? That would solve a big problem for me!

      Best,

      Bill

    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
      Are you planning to construct this concrete pond yourself? It really is best to hire a seasoned builder for a concrete pond.

      I don't know of any advantage to hardwire a pump. You will want it to be on a GFIC circuit (breaker or plug-in), and changing pumps and making repairs will be much easier if you can close two valves, open 2 unions, unplug the pump and remove it.

      I bought TPR fittings for a liner pond, than made the face of the return flush with the inside face of the concrete pond wall, no cover, just the open pipe.

      I have only experience installing two bottom drains. I used the same general procedure to install my bottom drains that are used for a liner pond, except I made the sure there was sufficient concrete of the proper mix and reinforcement above and around the drain and the pipe as part of the base slab to prevent any differential settlement once the pond is full. This is one of the reasons to hire a professional to place the concrete shell. Send a PM to me if you wish to see the pond, it is about 2 hours from PDX.

      I used schedule 80 PVC pipe for my airlines. I ran two separate lines from the bottom drains all the way to the air manifold.
      I'm planning on hiring out a shotcrete guy who does pools/fountains. Thanks for the info about the BDs and the air lines! Would love to see the pond too.

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by icu2 View Post
      I made mine from block so not on the same level as shotcrete, but I didn't use anything for the pipe
      penetrations but the pipe. I just packed hydraulic cement around the perimeter to seal it.

      Name:  core drill 8.jpg
Views: 492
Size:  107.9 KB

      Personally I'd put the all the returns you have drawn in and maybe even a couple more, like one for
      the shelf that someone mentioned will collect debris. Just put a ball valve on each return and turn off
      any you don't use. If you find your shower flow is too much for just the 3 and the waterfall return, you'll
      be glad you have some more. Or you can alternate some you don't really need all the time but can
      activate if you see debris build up in an area with no flow. It's simple to add them now, but hard to
      add them later.

      Like Grumpy, I used 3/4" pvc on my pond with bottom drains for the air lines and I just direct buried
      everything.

      I think your filter design will work well. Might need something for fines with just a sieve and shower... like
      a sand and gravel filter, but much better than the sieve and bead imho.
      Thanks for all the advice and the extra push to do more returns! Admittedly I was trying to do the least number possible, but you are 100% right that it's easier to do them now
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    11. #31
      Fishman866 is offline Junior Member
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      Did you get a shotcrete quote? How much? I am curious as I might go that route since minge flies destroyed my EMPD liner in 9 years. My pond is a similar size as yours.

    12. #32
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      Sorry Fishman but you have no idea how funny your post is to us in the UK! It may have been a typo or those flies actually exist, but...

    13. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by perniciousviper View Post
      sorry fishman but you have no idea how funny your post is to us in the uk! It may have been a typo or those flies actually exist, but...
      lolol

    14. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fishman866 View Post
      Did you get a shotcrete quote? How much? I am curious as I might go that route since minge flies destroyed my EMPD liner in 9 years. My pond is a similar size as yours.
      I did. It’s looking around $10k depending on some strength additives.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    15. #35
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      Update: returns have been plumbed and making progress on the bottom drains. Need to figure out the air hose set up as well this week, but after that we'll be ready for concrete

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    16. #36
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      Bottom drains and air lines in! Concrete may be delayed due to supply issues, but happy that we aren't holding it up anymore. Going to keep working on carving out the filtration pit for now.
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    17. #37
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      Finally found a bakki shower in stock! Are there any economical alternatives to these spendy medias, or do I need to fork it over?

      https://playitkoi.com/products/seasi...29033295773730

      https://playitkoi.com/products/momot...e-filter-media

    18. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by red_pdx View Post
      Finally found a bakki shower in stock! Are there any economical alternatives to these spendy medias, or do I need to fork it over?

      https://playitkoi.com/products/seasi...29033295773730

      https://playitkoi.com/products/momot...e-filter-media
      There's much debate about what media to use...
      it can be a challenge to find but my favorite is called feather rock. It's sort of like lava rock but much much lighter.
      It will cut you like glass but it's porous like pumice. But it's not lave rock and it's not pumice.

      http://www.featherock.com/

      Look for quarries that sell different kinds of rock. Or large landscaping supply places. I found it at a place called Manufacturers Mineral Co.
      in Renton, WA. Back in 2011 they called it "Lite Rock" and it was 31 cents/lb. It was about $60 to fill 3 - 4' long containers for my shower.
      --Steve



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    19. #39
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      X2 on the feather rock, you'll probably have to break it up or saw it, mine came in various sizes and none of it was small. I used my 10" tile saw and cut it up in about 1 1/2" sizes and used 250 pounds of it..

    20. #40
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      Rebar is in! Concrete should be shot in next couple of weeks.

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