• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cocky
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Drunk
  • Embarrased
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Results 1 to 6 of 6

    Thread: Opinions on Flow Pattern

    1. #1
      vacrin is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Louisiana
      Posts
      14

      Opinions on Flow Pattern

      I'm in the early planning process of a 22' x 22' x 6' formal design. My estimate is ~20,000 gallons with filter volumes. One side will have some slant to the bottom due to some pool plumbing I am trying to avoid moving.
      Planned construction will be cement with xypex additive.
      Drainage will consist of five 4" bottom drains (middle one will have aeration) and two surface skimmers with 4" ports.
      For filtration I am planning on two ProfiDrum Eco 65/60 pumped to raised stainless showers and gravity returned to two 4" low returns and two 2" returns 1 foot below the surface each. This will be two identical systems so I can take one side down if necessary for some reason and still have filtration.
      Zapp Pure UV Sterilizer ZP-40 on one return circuit.

      Will the gravity returns that I have in mind provide enough flow?

      Feel free to make any recommendations based on the above plan. The attached pic shows my thoughts on drainage and return circuit placement. The white pipe are output to filters, red pipe are low water 4" returns and yellow pipe are upper water 2" returns. Please make any change recommendations.

      I have been keeping fish of all kinds for 25+ years and know only bad things happen fast when dealing with aquaculture of any kind but this will be my first adventure with koi and a pond so I'm going to take this build slowly.

      Thanks for all your thoughts and ideas.
      Attached Images Attached Images  
      Last edited by vacrin; 03-05-2021 at 06:29 PM.

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    2. #2
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
      ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is sorry otters exist
       
      Feeling:
      Annoyed
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      32,942
      Quote Originally Posted by vacrin View Post
      I'm in the early planning process of a 22' x 22' x 6' formal design.
      I love the RDF and shower design. You didn't say what flow rate you were going to try for so I'm not sure if egress/ingress
      size and numbers will work. It looks like you were trying to offset things to make up for the slope on the one side for pool
      pipes but I think I'd ignore it as I've never found slopes to effect debris that much underwater. I'd go ahead and add another
      BD too to even everything out and utilize all the inputs of the 65/60's:

      Name:  Image1.jpg
Views: 101
Size:  99.0 KB

      I'd do away with the upper returns too. I have one and find it annoying more than anything. It pushes the food from the fish and normally
      makes it find the skimmer faster than they can eat it. If you're going to push the Profi's a little towards their limits I think you'll need more
      returns from the showers... but having pump sizes will help to know just how many. Also, how far away will the showers be from the pond
      and how complicated are the routes from the showers to the underwater pond returns?

      This will be a fun build to watch! Can't wait to watch your progress!
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

    3. #3
      vacrin is offline Junior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2017
      Location
      Louisiana
      Posts
      14
      What about the plumbing layout here. White pipes include six 4" bottom drains and two 4" skimmers lines. Three bottom drains and one skimmer to each Profidrum 65/60. Would have two variable speed pumps from each rdf, each going to a raised shower. That would give me four showers in the equipment room with two 4" returns each, total of eight 4" returns (red pipes), with two 4" returns gravity feed back to each corner. Looking to flow a total of 22,000 gph so each side with have 11,000 gph going through it.

      What shower would be recommended to be able to gravity flow 5-6000 gph through two 4" bottom ports?

      The blue pipe is air to the center two bottom drains and the green pipe is waste water (rdfs, flow drains and gutters) to sewer.

      The second pic includes a hot tub and outdoor kitchen patio that already exists. This will be built onto the back of that area. Equipment room would be enclosed and pond will have a pergola.

      Any recommendations would be appreciated.
      Attached Images Attached Images   

    4. #4
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,694
      Quote Originally Posted by vacrin View Post
      ...Drainage will consist of five 4" bottom drains (middle one will have aeration) ...
      Having one aerated source in the center of a square-cornered pond means that floating debris will get pushed to the four corners. You have skimmers in two corners, which means the debris pushed to the other two will be stuck there. That said, having a skimmer in each corner is a bit much, but I learned the above the hard way, so forewarned is forearmed

    5. #5
      kimini is offline Senior Member
      This user has no status.
       
      Feeling:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Oct 2007
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,694
      Whatever system you come up with, you'll be paying for the electricity forever, so put a limit on what you're willing to pay per month, and work backwards from that to figure out how many gallons per hour that works out to. There are some very efficient (though $$$$) pumps for low-head applications, which in your system, means that the showers will have a strong impact on what it costs to lift all that water to the top of them.
      Last edited by kimini; 03-12-2021 at 12:56 PM.

    6. #6
      icu2's Avatar
      icu2 is offline Administrator ~ WWKC President
      ~ WWKC Treasurer
      is sorry otters exist
       
      Feeling:
      Annoyed
       
      Join Date
      Feb 2007
      Location
      Poulsbo, WA
      Posts
      32,942
      Quote Originally Posted by vacrin View Post
      What about the plumbing layout here. White pipes include six 4" bottom drains and two 4" skimmers lines. Three bottom drains and one skimmer to each Profidrum 65/60. Would have two variable speed pumps from each rdf, each going to a raised shower. That would give me four showers in the equipment room with two 4" returns each, total of eight 4" returns (red pipes), with two 4" returns gravity feed back to each corner. Looking to flow a total of 22,000 gph so each side with have 11,000 gph going through it.

      What shower would be recommended to be able to gravity flow 5-6000 gph through two 4" bottom ports?

      The blue pipe is air to the center two bottom drains and the green pipe is waste water (rdfs, flow drains and gutters) to sewer.

      The second pic includes a hot tub and outdoor kitchen patio that already exists. This will be built onto the back of that area. Equipment room would be enclosed and pond will have a pergola.

      Any recommendations would be appreciated.
      I like this design a lot.
      For my property I'd probably need more skimmers, but I live in the woods and looking at your (very cool) other
      backyard amenities I'd guess you don't have a lot of close tree cover? With no waterfall return I'm also guessing you'd
      like a smooth surface to view the fish? The air will obviously mess that up, so I'd have them on a timer to run when
      the pond isn't being viewed and/or remote control to easily be turned off. I find with my shower I don't use any additional
      air but it will help your BD's work.

      The shower design can be just about anything. From plastic to stainless steel, they just need to be big enough to hold
      the media and allow the water to pass through. They really shouldn't "hold" much water at all. And if they're out of sight,
      esthetics isn't as big a problem either. Just for one example, my shower is made of 4 boxes stacked, each is 12" high x18" deep x 48" wide
      and it has 2 - 4" returns and flows about 8k gph. A lot of the max flow rate depends on the length and complexity
      of the shower to pond returns and the amount the shower outlets are above pond level. Speaking of which, how much
      higher are the shower bottoms than normal pond level?

      A couple of details to consider...
      RDF waste can be nasty, smelly stuff. And there can be more of it and water than you anticipated. I'm not sure where
      yours goes, but keep that in mind. Also with it looking like most is buried and paved over, be sure to have a couple of
      clean out access if it ever was to get plugged.
      Same goes for BD and skimmer pipes. Have a clean out for debris. At about 3k gph each it sounds like that would
      be plenty to keep a pipe from collecting debris, but it isn't. They attract all kind of weird crustacean like creatures
      that live in them and will eventually slow the flow rate so it's great to have a quick way to clean those pipes.

      Can't wait to watch!
      --Steve



      Koiphen 2021 Koi Person of the Year!

      • Remove Ads
        Advertising from Google
        Promoting Koi and Pond
        keeping since 2007

         

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •