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    Thread: Is Saki Hikari still the best?

    1. #1
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      Is Saki Hikari still the best?

      I know several years ago Saki Hikari was groundbreaking and everybody wanted it. Have any foods surpassed it now?

    2. #2
      batman's Avatar
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      Food trends come and go and the best of the best is nothing more than someone's opinion.
      The real Batman wears polyester! Don't be fooled by the plastic imposter.

    3. #3
      sactownkoi is offline Senior Member
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      I still think they are but is so expensive so I switch to JPD and Nijikawa.

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiFan84 View Post
      I know several years ago Saki Hikari was groundbreaking and everybody wanted it. Have any foods surpassed it now?
      I used some Hikari a few years back and it was like a laxative for my koi. Meanwhile others had zero issues with it. Similar comparisons have been found across the food spectrum. Determine your budget and food quantity you need, and then make decisions based on that buying pool. Might be some trial by error but everyone's pond is different.



      Diamond Lifetime Member #95!
      Just because its not a Great Koi doesn't mean its not a Great Koi...Me circa 2013

    5. #5
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      How do JPD and Hikari compare?

    6. #6
      MikeM's Avatar
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      Both JPD and Hikari have multiple lines of koi foods. Folks do not always compare the same sorts. The JPD food most comparable to Saki-Hikari Growth is JPD Shori.
      The list price of JPD Shori is typically 25% - 30% less than Saki-Hikari Growth. However, shipping costs can make them closer in price depending on the distance, etc. of the seller. Also, discounts for purchasing in bulk differ. If price is the main factor in making your choice between them, be sure to compare the price per pound delivered to your door.

      Saki Hikari Growth
      Crude Protein Crude Fat Crude Fiber Moisture Ash
      min. 40.0% min. 9.0% max. 2.0% max. 10.0% max. 17.0%
      Fish meal, wheat flour, wheat germ meal, brewers dried yeast, dried bakery product, soybean meal, fish oil, corn gluten meal, krill meal, rice bran, dried seaweed meal, garlic, DL-methionine, probiotics, astaxanthin, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (stabilized vitamin C), inositol, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, niacin, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, monosodium phosphate, salt, disodium phosphate, ferrous sulfate, magnesium sulfate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate.


      JPD Shori (High Growth)
      Protein 45%
      Fat 8%
      Fiber 2.5%
      Ash 8.5%
      Phosphate 1%
      Calcium 1.5%
      Sodium 0.4%
      Astaxanthin 16mg/Kg

      Fish Meal, Krill Meal, Wheat Flour, Soybean Cake, Corn, Gluten Meal, Defatted Rice Bran, Fish Oil, Calcium Phosphate, Garlic Powder, Salt, Toyoserin (Probiotics), Astaxanthin, Vitamins (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B12, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folic Acid, Biotin, Para Amino Benzoic Acid, Inositol, Heat-resistant Vitamin C, Vitamin K3, Choline), Minerals (Ferric Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Carbonate, Zinc Carbonate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Magnesium Carbonate).

    7. #7
      Hope J is offline Senior Member
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      I've always LOVED Saki and it works really well for me, but I had to switch because the prices have really skyrocketed. I switched to Hei Feng and they seemed to like it enough but the last bad, they had zero interest in it. The last bag I got the Hakari (not Saki) in the green bag and even though it's winter, and I've only fed a small amount based on water temperatures, they seem to like it.

    8. #8
      Hope J is offline Senior Member
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      *bag*

    9. #9
      Hope J is offline Senior Member
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      Sometimes, in the summer, I'll coat the food with a little bit of Anchovie paste and they really go crazy for it once they get used to the taste and it is a naturally high source of Guanine which is good for their immune system etc.

    10. #10
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
      Both JPD and Hikari have multiple lines of koi foods. Folks do not always compare the same sorts. The JPD food most comparable to Saki-Hikari Growth is JPD Shori.
      The list price of JPD Shori is typically 25% - 30% less than Saki-Hikari Growth. However, shipping costs can make them closer in price depending on the distance, etc. of the seller. Also, discounts for purchasing in bulk differ. If price is the main factor in making your choice between them, be sure to compare the price per pound delivered to your door.

      Saki Hikari Growth
      Crude Protein Crude Fat Crude Fiber Moisture Ash
      min. 40.0% min. 9.0% max. 2.0% max. 10.0% max. 17.0%
      Fish meal, wheat flour, wheat germ meal, brewers dried yeast, dried bakery product, soybean meal, fish oil, corn gluten meal, krill meal, rice bran, dried seaweed meal, garlic, DL-methionine, probiotics, astaxanthin, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (stabilized vitamin C), inositol, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, niacin, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, monosodium phosphate, salt, disodium phosphate, ferrous sulfate, magnesium sulfate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate.


      JPD Shori (High Growth)
      Protein 45%
      Fat 8%
      Fiber 2.5%
      Ash 8.5%
      Phosphate 1%
      Calcium 1.5%
      Sodium 0.4%
      Astaxanthin 16mg/Kg

      Fish Meal, Krill Meal, Wheat Flour, Soybean Cake, Corn, Gluten Meal, Defatted Rice Bran, Fish Oil, Calcium Phosphate, Garlic Powder, Salt, Toyoserin (Probiotics), Astaxanthin, Vitamins (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B12, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folic Acid, Biotin, Para Amino Benzoic Acid, Inositol, Heat-resistant Vitamin C, Vitamin K3, Choline), Minerals (Ferric Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Carbonate, Zinc Carbonate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Magnesium Carbonate).
      How much of a difference do you think that extra 5% of protein makes for growth. Do you think there would be a noticeable difference in koi size over a 2 or 3 year period?

    11. #11
      MCAsan is offline Senior Member
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      JPD foods are as good or better.

    12. #12
      kevins2ooo is offline Senior Member
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      So...if you look at two fish, without talking to the owner, could you tell what food they have been consuming?

    13. #13
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by kevins2ooo View Post
      So...if you look at two fish, without talking to the owner, could you tell what food they have been consuming?
      The owner is the one who cares about maximizing the growth of his own fish obviously. I’m hoping someone who has fed both foods noticed better growth with one. Your quote is a bit odd to understand...

    14. #14
      Russell Peters's Avatar
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      Who ever said Saki-Hikari was the best?
      Last edited by Russell Peters; 01-17-2021 at 01:16 AM.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    15. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hope J View Post
      I've always LOVED Saki and it works really well for me, but I had to switch because the prices have really skyrocketed. I switched to Hei Feng and they seemed to like it enough but the last bag, they had zero interest in it. The last bag I got the Hakari (not Saki) in the green bag and even though it's winter, and I've only fed a small amount based on water temperatures, they seem to like it.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hope J View Post
      *bag*
      You can edit your original post.
      people like to vehemently defend their purchases and find it incredulous that anything could be better

    16. #16
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
      Who ever said Saki-Hikari was the best?
      For a while after it first came out it seemed to have that reputation at least as far as what Americans had access to. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a type that breeders were using already that wasn't on the market. What type do you like?

    17. #17
      kevins2ooo is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiFan84 View Post
      The owner is the one who cares about maximizing the growth of his own fish obviously. Iím hoping someone who has fed both foods noticed better growth with one. Your quote is a bit odd to understand...
      Sorry English is not my first language. Given two fish which have been fed Saki Hikari and JPD, could you tell which one has been fed strictly Saki Hikari? You can't.

      Anyway, my point is hobbyists or even most professionals cannot make an accurate or reliable conclusion on that. For one, you have to have everything identical to rule out other possibilities. No two fish will have the same growth rate, even from the same parents and living in the same pond and eating the same amount of food...So how would you determine which food is better? What if somebody here told you their tosai had great growth with Saki Hikari last year but not this year with JPD? That does not mean anything because there are so many factors coming into play, different breeder tosai this year versus last year, different seasonal temperatures (hotter last year?), pond setup mishap one year but not the other...etc.

      To experiment with that, you would have to have two identical ponds, same feeding patterns and amount, and have large number of fish in each pond to normalize the outliers, essentially to rule out other causes of faster / slower growth. If you sample, measure, and track the growth of the fish and find the average...then yes, that is possible. I doubt anyone here would have such an experiment except maybe the breeders.

    18. #18
      coolwon is online now Senior Member
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      With all those really fancy ingredients printed out for the hobbyists benefit.

      Probably added up to a price increase.

      Fish food used to be ground up culls and 1/2 dozen recognizable ingredients.

      KOI = $ BIG, BUCKS,000.

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    19. #19
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      There are a lot of good quality foods out there for less money. I seriously doubt that 98% here on KP could tell the difference or be concerned about it. And you well enjoy your koi regardless of what quality food you choose.

      Genetics and koi husbandry is the key.

      The debate of what koi food is the best is a silly debate.
      As mentioned in above posting. Take several koi from the same parents. Divide the numbers in half and put them into two identical ponds/tanks. Feed them the same amount. I doubt you well tell the difference. JMO

    20. #20
      wildwolfdisco is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by KoiFan84 View Post
      How much of a difference do you think that extra 5% of protein makes for growth. Do you think there would be a noticeable difference in koi size over a 2 or 3 year period?
      It would make 0 difference. People need to stop being so fixated on thinking higher protein % automatically means faster growth. if you don't then you are pretty much falling into their marketing strategy. Focus on the other variables in your pond that will actually translate into optimizing growth

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