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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    Thread: How much protection does a deeper pond with straight sides give against wading birds?

    1. #21
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      I will say I bet there are owls and hawks in your area. They will dive bomb the pond. I had a large owl do it. I get bamboo steaks and string high test fishing line in a perimeter above the pond then back and forth a couple of feet above the pond so that there are no spaces for them to dive bomb. The perimeter is for the herons. I really hate the way nets make the pond look. I really think it ruins the enjoyment of a pond. When I have people over they don't even notice that the fishing line is there for the first few minutes.

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    2. #22
      MCAsan is offline Senior Member
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      Would rather imprint lead into any bird that is after my koi.

      Too many years living in TX.

    3. #23
      two_wheeled is offline Senior Member
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      My personal opinion and experience, in response to your question.
      I'm in Phoenix. Long ago I had a small pond. It was only 1-2 feet deep, with shelves for plants. One night two raccoons came in and destroyed it. I got the whole thing on video from a security camera. They walked in, tore up all the plants, and ate almost all of my fish. My brother set up a trap for them but they didn't come back. Three weeks later after the trap was gone they came back and ate the last of the fish and I had nothing left. I was pretty sad.
      So I decided to build a new pond that would be less apt to accommodate predators. I did a LOT of research on how to build a better pond (thank you koiphen!) and decided I wanted a deeper pond with straight sides so the raccoons wouldn't be able to get in it (or out of it if they did decide to chance a swim). My pond is 24" above ground and almost the same below. So far so good, after 3-4 years. It's too deep for a heron to get in the water, but it might stand on the side and wait for them to come up. I can't do much about that but I do have a dog that loves to chase away birds so I feel relatively safe.
      It is my personal belief that straight sides are much less inviting for predators. Hope that helps.
      -Steve in Phx.
      Novice Extraordinaire

    4. #24
      Vettezuki is offline Member
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      Thanks for all the additional info! I love the drink holding mannequin. Because of the pandemic, I do work from home almost all the time now. Didn't think of the security camera that alerts my phone. Duh! Between five foot below and a 12" - 15" above, straight sides and a security camera, maybe that's about the best I can do.

      I'm also building some natural wetland behind our house that is more nature oriented. That is not for Koi. Maybe I can call the CA DNR and see if they provide fish (some states do. ) Just keep that one stocked with native species in a natural environment. In that case the predators would go to what is easier pickings and stay away from the pond close to the house, that isn't so friendly. At least theoretically!

    5. #25
      kimini is offline Senior Member
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      I'm in the San Diego area and the county department "Vector Control" gives away free mosquito fish.

    6. #26
      kdh is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vettezuki View Post
      Thanks for all the additional info! I love the drink holding mannequin. Because of the pandemic, I do work from home almost all the time now. Didn't think of the security camera that alerts my phone. Duh! Between five foot below and a 12" - 15" above, straight sides and a security camera, maybe that's about the best I can do.

      I'm also building some natural wetland behind our house that is more nature oriented. That is not for Koi. Maybe I can call the CA DNR and see if they provide fish (some states do. ) Just keep that one stocked with native species in a natural environment. In that case the predators would go to what is easier pickings and stay away from the pond close to the house, that isn't so friendly. At least theoretically!
      I think your theory part is theoretically incorrect.

    7. #27
      Tommygug's Avatar
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      Admitting natural has won!

      Quote Originally Posted by kdh View Post
      I think your theory part is theoretically incorrect.
      I started with a small pond with steps, feed the raccoons, egrets and herons...I hate netting! redid the pond with 5 foot straight walls ...had lots of herons visit.... fish losses decreased

      watched a huge Osprey take a nice Ochiba....awesome I was standing 15 foot from the pond

      Lately, I noticed my smaller nicer koi have started disappearing !!!! hawks netting goes up in the spring!!!

      Sometimes you just cant win!!!

    8. #28
      two_wheeled is offline Senior Member
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      Sounds like you are both a fishkeeper and a bird watcher!
      -Steve in Phx.
      Novice Extraordinaire

    9. #29
      KoiFan84 is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tommygug View Post
      I started with a small pond with steps, feed the raccoons, egrets and herons...I hate netting! redid the pond with 5 foot straight walls ...had lots of herons visit.... fish losses decreased

      watched a huge Osprey take a nice Ochiba....awesome I was standing 15 foot from the pond

      Lately, I noticed my smaller nicer koi have started disappearing !!!! hawks netting goes up in the spring!!!

      Sometimes you just cant win!!!
      String high test clear fishing line a couple of feet above the pond wrapped around natural bamboo stakes in the ground at spots around outside of pond. It looks wayyy better.

    10. #30
      aranki is offline Junior Member
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      [QUOTE=*Ci*;2769833]Herons will certainly fish from the edge of the pond without wading ... even over a raised edge or wall. Plus they have been known to regurgitate and/or throw bait into water to lure fish. Seriously.

      So that's what the white foamy yaky stuff floating on my pond!!!! Few weeks ago I chased a Heron off the ledge of my pond and I saw this stuff on the water, the Heron was not there long enough for the fish to come up from the bottom for it to get any fish, but that unsightly mess perplexed me I thought the bird defecated in the pond. Never occurred to me that it regurgitated. When the Herons continued to visit my pond, I installed a $25 security camera with motion detection. The camera has an application on my phone that gets an alert. Since we've been home for the past year, we would go out and scare the Herons away. Been noticing that the birds usually stop coming back after a couple of scares. We keep track of the colors of the birds to know which came back. One negative aspect of the camera alert system is that it will send an alert every time vegetation moves due to wind. So I keep the camera streaming on an old phone during the day time.

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    11. #31
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      Three foot or greater depthat edges does the trick and have used fishing line run over water body to differ birds.

    12. #32
      Slapshot is offline Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vettezuki View Post
      Thanks for the info. That's not what I was hoping to hear, but I didn't want to find out the hard way they aren't so protected either.

      So do most people just put nets over their pond regardless of depth, or simply accept they will lose some fish?
      I gave up. Net for me. I have a cover over it in the winter, it never fails, the day I take that cover off the **** Heron is there the next morning.

    13. #33
      Gbbudd is offline Junior Member
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      Only sure way to stop heron from an open pond from getting fish is to have a 36 drop from the waters edge to the waters surface . And to have your shallowest shelf at over 36"
      Others prefer to cover there pond with a net. Not my idea of a pleasant view looking through a net. One other way is to one remove the flight path to the pond Hero can drop in on a steep angle but they can not take off on a really short steep grade. Osprey can drop straight in but they to need a lengthy flight patch out

    14. #34
      spkennyva is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Gbbudd View Post
      Only sure way to stop heron from an open pond from getting fish is to have a 36 drop from the waters edge to the waters surface . And to have your shallowest shelf at over 36"
      Others prefer to cover there pond with a net. Not my idea of a pleasant view looking through a net. One other way is to one remove the flight path to the pond Hero can drop in on a steep angle but they can not take off on a really short steep grade. Osprey can drop straight in but they to need a lengthy flight patch out
      The depth of the pond does nothing to prevent herons from fishing around the sides of the pond. Every fish I've lost due to herons was with them fishing on dry ground. I've witnessed this numerous times. My pond is deep enough to prevent them from wading, but that does NOT prevent loss. The herons are VERY aggressive in the spring around here. I've ran them off numerous times, set my dog after them numerous times, they return quickly as though nothing happened.

      Regarding, Osprey, they are very good at near vertical take-offs. Originally I used a very course grid of fishing line close to the water's surface, leaving about 3ftx3ft squares open. The osprey were still dropping in and flying out without problems. Now my grid is denser and much higher off the surface and osprey issues are mostly gone.

    15. #35
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      I just shoot them. We had three for Thanksgiving this year.

    16. #36
      batman is offline Senior Member
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    17. #37
      coolwon is offline Senior Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by coolwon View Post
      What you might consider is the height of the surrounding pond wall in relation to the water surface.

      Consider 10" or 12" inches clearance, to stop the birds leaning in, and the fish jumping out.

      The wader type birds are the problem, ideally suited to a water plant ledge below the surface.

      Brings the bird body and head closer and into a shorter more accurate darting distance.

      On a taller edge the heron would be more imposing and more conspicuous.

      Safari ponds are more inclined to attract the shy indigenous wild life being away from the house always a problem.

      No walls, to interfere with the birds flight path into the water edge.

      Less human activity.

      Depth is a big benefit with slower lagging of temperature differences between the cold fronts that can be upon you and gone in in no time.

      Fish are susceptible to big temperature swings.

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    18. #38
      stevek is offline Supporting Member
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      or you can train a " guard hawk " to watch over your pond....
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